The Small Tent? (5.00 / 1)

Do I understand your comment to mean that you wish to narrow the focus of who can be a "member" of the Mass GOP?

"Never, never, never give up" - Winston Churchill

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by: David Whelan @ Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 21:44:04 PM UTC

That's Not What I Mean (5.00 / 2)

As I mentioned in the early part of my post, today's Republican Party needs to return to a policy of fusionism which became the foundation for conservatism's successful revival under Buckley & Reagan.

Fusionism is a "big tent" philosophy for the three major strands of conservatism. It also works as a practical way of harnessing the disparate passions of the various conservatives towards common objectives. Buckley & company, however, understood that it's important for the conservative movement to define what it is NOT as well as what it IS. Based on Buckley's interpretation of what he constituted as "conservative," the philosophies which drove the Objectivists & the Birchers were (for a variety of reasons) found to be incompatible with "conservatism". The rest is history.

The state GOP needs to define what it means to be "conservative" in this bluest of Blue States. Is New England conservatism different from that of the South or the Midwest states? If not, why not? If so, how so? This debate/discussion needs to happen ASAP so that Bay State Republicans have the intellectual tools in place to help them effectively combat the Democrats & other like-minded groups.  

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by: The Angelic One @ Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 22:25:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I don't think we had a philosophical crisis (5.00 / 1)

We did best with the races for governor, treasurer, and auditor -- why?  Because all three were races about good government, fiscal responsibility, and economic opportunity.  

That's what Yankee Republicanism is all about, always has been, whether you're talking about Baker, Weld, Sargent, Richardson, Coolidge, or Henry Cabot Lodge.  Keep government out of bedrooms, boardrooms, and wallets.

And there's nothing "conservative" about those positions; I don't know why some people think Republicanism is the same thing as conservatism.  You could aptly describe successful Yankee Republicans from the last 150 years as "pro-growth progressives".

The races we did poorly in involved a birther in the 6th, a guy who compared being gay to being short in the 4th, and a thug cop in the 4th.  Their brand of Republicanism was the anomaly this year; it was closer to the Southern conservatism of the old Democratic Party -- emphatically NOT Yankee Republicanism.

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by: yankeegop @ Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 22:34:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

There Was A Time For Yankee Republicanism (5.00 / 2)

But that time has long ago ceased to exist. Yankee Republicanism was no match for the Old Left led by its Catholic/Jewish apologists (from the 1930s to the 1970s) & has become even more feeble in its dealings with today's New Left secularists. Charlie Baker's electoral wipeout yesterday underscores that sad reality. Yankee Republicanism needs to adapt itself to a changed world. I sincerely hope it does so soon.

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by: The Angelic One @ Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 23:15:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

What's the future of Republicanism, according to you? (0.00 / 0)

Is deficit spending and religious litmus tests the future of the GOP?  If so, I fear for it.

I think you're absolutely wrong about Yankee Republicanism.  Voters haven't changed, the Mass GOP has abandoned Yankee Republicanism for the crap that works in Mississippi.  

The majority of Massachusetts are "unenrolled" and identify as fiscally conservative, socially liberal -- that's Yankee Republicanism.  To paraphrase, Massachusetts didn't leave the GOP, the Mass GOP left the voters.

You really think that if Charlie Baker was more like Bielat, Hudak, and Perry, then we would've done better?

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by: yankeegop @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 00:04:29 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yankee - maybe so. (4.50 / 2)

I disagree with those gentlemen about several issues, but by God, they believed in something.

Other than wanting the job.

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 00:18:57 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

The Future Ain't What It Used To Be (5.00 / 1)

"Is deficit spending and religious litmus tests the future of the GOP?"

Sadly, it has been for awhile. When a Yankee Republican like George W. Bush tolerated a spendthrift GOP Congress, he did so at the expense of his ancestral patrimony. Now he could have used his veto pen more aggressively during his presidency had he been as strong a believer as you in Yankee Republicanism. But he didn't because he wasn't. And Yankee Republicanism has had its share of religious litmus tests against Jews (quotas in universities) & Catholics ("Irish Need Not Apply" signs back in the day). Thankfully not ALL Yankees were complicit in the aforementioned situations.

"Voters haven't changed, the Mass GOP has abandoned Yankee Republicanism for the crap that works in Mississippi."

What "works" in Mississippi? The state GOP hasn't been able to figure out what "works" there or anywhere else since the state GOP can't even figure out what - if anything - it represents. And while the state GOP has played Hamlet, the voters in the Bay State HAVE changed due to immigration (legal & otherwise), emigration, paradigm shifts in the economy, politics, culture, & so forth.

"The majority of Massachusetts are "unenrolled" and identify as fiscally conservative, socially liberal -- that's Yankee Republicanism."

Said majority shot down the two ballot questions (1 & 3) which would have cut taxes in this state. If in fact they are "socially liberal" then you shouldn't be surprised that - depending on how the term is defined - said majority will embrace the Welfare State & the ensuing paradigm shift that goes with it. After all, it feels good to be "socially liberal" with OTHER people's money (taxes).

"You really think that if Charlie Baker was more like Bielat, Hudak, and Perry, then we would've done better?"

Absolutely not. But as a supporter of Baker I was disheartened at the piss poor campaign he & his team conducted this past election cycle. Should I have been surprised? Not really, I guess. The fuzziness of Baker's campaign seemed to be a reflection of Baker's fuzziness on what's required of a Republican to be a leader in a state which mocks its original Yankee Republican patrimony even as it devours it.

But I still hold out hope for Yankee Republicanism if it ever decides to reclaim its foundational attributes which, in turn, made it possible for the IDEA of the American Revolution to become a reality.

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 01:25:32 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

fiscally conservative = fiscally responsible (5.00 / 1)

Said majority shot down the two ballot questions (1 & 3) which would have cut taxes in this state.

I said fiscally conservative, which means fiscally responsible.  Cutting the sales tax to 3-percent, with a $2 billion deficit, and no fiscal plan in place would have been the height of fiscal IRRESPONSIBILITY.

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by: yankeegop @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 01:34:11 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Don't Tell Me Q1 Didn't Pass! n/t (0.00 / 0)

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by: ConsEph @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 01:38:34 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

It Did (0.00 / 0)

My fatigue got the better of me when I erroneously stated that Question #1 failed.

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by: The Angelic One @ Sat Nov 06, 2010 at 02:55:18 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Irresponsible? Yes (5.00 / 4)

But I would have voted for Question #3 (I didn't) had a fiscal plan been put in place by the state GOP. It would have been a great "teachable moment" for the voters wherein the Republicans lay out what must be cut & why it must be done while the Democrats defend the targets of said cuts. Then it would be up to the voters to choose. Sadly, Republicans were bitterly divided over this issue & many Democrats used this division to shore up their base - at the expense of the GOP. So long as Republicans lack a common vision on what constitutes fiscal responsibility, acceptable levels of public spending, or the necessity of taxes, other players in the political game (like Democrats, special interest groups, or the occasional non-partisan demagogue) will assert themselves in the vacuum of an agreed-upon economic policy by the GOP.

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 02:00:05 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Mass GOP did not support Question 3 (0.00 / 0)

Their candidate for governor didn't want it so they spent their time getting candidates to say they only wanted 5% which was not on the ballot.  They had no interest in informing the public why it was viable and necessary.

There WAS information on how cuts could be made without impacting services.  I personlly identified $1.5 million of them (and I've shared that with candidates like Dan Winslow and Randy Hunt).

Mass GOP has never read the budget, much less developed a fiscal plan.

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 13:53:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Reality (5.00 / 1)

Supporting Q3 in this past election probably was a bad move politically. Just my opinion.  

"Never, never, never give up" - Winston Churchill

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by: David Whelan @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 13:59:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I Agree, David (0.00 / 0)

But Question 3 came into being because the state GOP was perceived to be doing nothing proactive about taxes. This perception was exploited by Carla & her Howellettes who quickly got the question on the ballot. Carla pockets some serious cash for her efforts & her success in placing another doomed-to-fail-ballot-question nonetheless adds luster to her meme in the eyes of her rabid cult (small as it is).

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 14:35:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Angel - I am a cult member myself. And 45%+ of the electorate agreed with me. (0.00 / 0)

And no, I didn't get paid as a Howellete.  Never saw a penny.

By merely offering a choice to the electorate like CSG did, you could also characterize the GOP as 'doomed to fail'.

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 16:52:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

"Choice" Without A Strategy Behind It Is Doomed To Fail (0.00 / 0)

And Republicans shouldn't get into the habit of doing things or supporting things that are doomed to fail. Not unless the party wants to be associated with failure (which it is in the eyes of a lot of voters). In which case the rationale of having a failed party around ceases to make sense. By the way, I had no idea you belonged to the Cult of Carla. Will you try to persuade the Vatican that Carla merits sainthood?.

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by: The Angelic One @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:45:30 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

What A Damning Comment (5.00 / 1)

"Mass GOP has never read the budget, much less developed a fiscal plan."

And yet the GOP wonders why Massachusetts voters remain reluctant to elect a majority of their members as stewards of the state?

When it comes to professional politics, Republicans come off as minor league players while the Democrats remain major league players.

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 14:15:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Question 3 was another thing that went wrong this year (0.00 / 0)

The GOP's focus, and CLT's, was to elect more pro-taxpayer legislators, and a couple statewide offices would have been good for us too. This was no year to do a ballot question, which was a waste of time UNLESS the primary goal, a governor and more legislators, was reached, because the existing Beacon Hill wouldn't implement it even if it passed.
Instead our candidates had to keep explaining how they would deal with a $2.4 billion cut in two months, and two billion more come the July budget. However, if Q 3 had been 5%, it might have been something that our candidates could focus on, just repealing the 2009 tax hike, with no need to anwer "where would you cut?" since they'd just keep stating how Deval promised property tax relief and gave us a 25% sales tax hike.
Carla positioned us all, the damn thing was on the ballot and we all had to find a way to deal with it. CLT, with Charlie and Karyn, offered to support a change to 5 & 5, implemented more gradually. But in all the campaign noise, not to mention the two million in union ads, we couldn't get that message out. Q 3 failed, as expected, and our candidates did too, though they would have anyhow because of other problems discussed here.

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 20:53:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

PS (0.00 / 0)

I haven't been on the Hill lately but over the 30 years of my activism I recall the Senate and House Republicans going over every inch of the leadership budgets, coming up with amendments, fighting the budget fight with no one really paying attention of giving them credit. Is there some evidence that they don't read the budget? I really want to see it posted here.  

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 20:57:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

MA GOP and GOP legislators are not the same thing (0.00 / 0)

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 00:48:57 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You are so right, Peter (0.00 / 0)

Why, after all these years, so I still knee-jerk respond as if there is a co-ordinated Republican Party?, which I assumed when I first started working with Republicans. I was so young: I thought the State Committee worked with Town Committees, the legislators advised the State Committee, the House and Senate Republicans worked together, and the activists supported them all in order to beat Democrats!! I certainly should have caught on by at least 1978ish, during the Gordon Nelson-Andrew Natsios battle for RSC Chairman.
Kids nowadays, attacking Jennifer Nassour. Hah! they don't know what bloody intraparty warfare looks like!  

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 15:37:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Easy Lesson, No? (5.00 / 1)

So wouldnt the take away lesson from this be that ballot questions can be the CHEAPEST form of campaign advertising available?
Granted things didnt work out well this time, but how much press did Carla's question generate for the 50 grand or so that they were able to put into it?
Our next state wide candidate should consider putting a similar question up for our approval and the run making that question the focal point of their entire camapign. Lets see the status quo defend their lame attacks in the full intensity of an entire seasons camapign.

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by: nomad943 @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 21:02:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Cheapest? are you counting the cost (0.00 / 0)

of collecting signatures?  Also, the press you get has to be GOOD press, not "the candidate is nuts" kind of press.

It can work, though, nomad. Not for lower offices, where the candidate can't raise enough money to run a petition drive and ballot campaign as well as prepare for his race. I'm thinking of Paul Cellucci teaming up with CLT for a petition drive on the income tax rollback, then being the chief spokesman and debator on it, in 2000. We won and it worked for him when he ran for governor in 2002.

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 15:43:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Bingo (0.00 / 0)

I am going to do a future post concerning Q3 I think you will like.

"I supported President Obama in 2008." - Gabriel Gomez

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by: Mike "DD4RP" Rossettie @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 15:53:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Look forward to it. (0.00 / 0)

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 16:08:57 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I Mean The Whole Package .. (0.00 / 0)

From the top all the way down. Get everyone talking from the same page and make the entire election about a single issue. We could see every discussion in every bar and coffeshop being about the same thing and if we win people would vote straight ticket all the way down ...

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by: nomad943 @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 16:00:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I remember this! (0.00 / 0)

CLT had this same idea on Prop 2 1/2!  We'd team up with the Republican Party and do something about property taxes. Started out OK, then there was this big fight, I was CLT secretary at the time, remember Republican state reps charging out of our office, created an alternative version, and opposed PRop 2 1/2 on the ballot. State Committee wouldn't help us, though a lot of its activists worked with us and are still good friends. Actually we all became friends eventually.

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 16:12:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Try Try Again .. (0.00 / 0)

If the issue is straight forward and simple than EVERYONE will have a strong opinion on it. And its not like we dont know what position our opponents will be FORCED to take. There is a big reason why Q3 opponents waited until the final 3 weeks to roll out their defense; it was stupid. Howell spent 15,000 bucks on advertising and the unions spent 5 million against it and it came pretty darn close even with no visible public champion.  

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by: nomad943 @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 16:24:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wait, it's all coming back to me (0.00 / 0)

In the early 80s we teamed up with CPPAX, Common Cause, some dissident Democrats, AND the Republican State Committee led by Andrew Natsios to do a legislative rules reform petition. Got the signatures but were thrown out by the courts. Different motives, though; Andrew really wanted to change the rules to make the system work and because liberal Dems supported it too it wouldn't have been a campaign issue.
Tried with term limits later but almost all legislators hated that, couldn't get a vote in the ConCon. Repub Town Committee helped get signatures, as they did with Prop 2 1/2 and all our other petitions.

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 17:15:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

An open plea to CLT (0.00 / 0)

With all the posts about the election, I'm sure you missed my post on this issue: An open plea to CLT

On twitter @bfrivers

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by: brivers @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 21:42:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Darn I did miss it, brivers (0.00 / 0)

but I heard about it and came looking for it, got distracted :~), just read it now, thanks for the link.
The problem is that petition drives cost a lot of money and we depend on volunteers both for the money and the hard work.  Carla raises money from somewhere and pays petitioners.
I can't justify asking our activists to work for no result. Until the legislature changes, it's a few people carrying the issue load for everyone else.  I personally don't believe in altruism of this sort. Happy to give conservative candidates something to run on, and lots of them have participated in the petition drives (thinking of Bob Hedlund and Bruce Tarr, in alphabetic order; Bob started as a kid working on PRop 2 1/2, and Bruce was Cellucci's co-ordinator on the North Shore for the income tax rollback).
But you do realize that Carla thinks CLT is a "tool of Big Government" and a bunch of compromisors (translation: we win most of the time). She would still be doing her own drives. So we'd be giving voters a choice between nutty and doable, and this would split the Yes vote while the No vote would win. It could work if voters would vote Yes on both questions, then the larger vote would win, but you wouldn't see Carla compromising to that degree; she'd spend much of her campaign time attacking us (while we'd say what we always say: vote for any tax cut on the ballot).

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 15:59:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yankee conservatism and Charlie? (5.00 / 1)

Where did that come from?  I arrived at the end of the old Yankee Republicanism, which I date to the moment I asked Bill Saltonstall to sign my Prop 2 1/2 petition and he declined, saying "I do not APPROVE of Proposition 2 1/2". Charlie has always supported Prop 2 1/2. Bill Weld was a New Yankee Republican. What was wrong with that? I don't get your point here.

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 00:12:41 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Un, Barbara (0.00 / 0)

I don't understand the issue you're trying to raise so would you please restate your concerns to me?

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 02:05:07 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

My concern is that you don't seem to know (0.00 / 0)

what the old Yankee Republicans were really like.  They weren't Bill Weld!

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 21:00:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I Grew Up With A Lot Of Old Yankee Republicans (0.00 / 0)

But the point I was making up line was that the ideologies which informed Yankee Republicanism was no match for the practical ideologies that animated the Old Left/New Left wings of the Democrat Party.

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by: The Angelic One @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:30:08 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yankee this and that (5.00 / 1)

Barbara is right.
There WAS something that might be called yankee conservatism but it had no influence on the Mass GOP by the time of Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. Yankee Republicanism was simply the GOP wing of Yankee progressivism. Volpe, Hatch and Sargent were all big government Republicans. This Yankee Republicanism met is end when Ray Shamie defeated Eliot Richardson ('the resume') in 1984 by running against taxes. Reagan nationally and Shamie in Massachusetts killed off the old statist east coast Brahmins.

Bill Weld was yankee Republican in many ways BUT he kept the No New Taxes pledge because of Reagan, Shamie, and, of course, Barbara Anderson and CLT.

OK, second canard: Massachusetts doomed to be Dem.

Some of you guys are making a pretty good case for the Bay State being hopeless. So I have to ask you: Is this state REALLY that so much different from the rest of the country??
We don't have to go to Kansas: Two out of six New England states are now fully in the hands of the GOP. I am betting they will be for a long time. No, one of the things that happened in this state on Tuesday is that a LOT of Democratic eggs were put in our basket. The Dems clobbered us partly because they gave up on Ohio.

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by: Edward59 @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 06:14:42 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

On to something here, though (5.00 / 1)

maybe not what you think. When I first got here, I joined the local Republican Pary, and recall my first meeting, thinking MG, these people hate each other. But the divide was fiscal back then, not social. Yankee Republicans opposed tax limitation. CLT was founded by Edward F. King, a conservative focused on fiscal issues, who ran against Yankee Frank Hatch who I think I recall endorsing Obama two years ago, along with Bill Saltonstall. Anyhow, when Hatch won the primary, we CLT fiscal conservatives/libertarians supported Democrat Ed King, who was both a fiscal and a social conservative. Big internal battle as you can imagine. I turned Independent, so I could talk with both sides for tax limitation battles.

Later CLT very comfortable with fiscal conservative/social liberal Bill Weld. SocComs hated him and Cellucci, who returned the contempt. Charlie has inherited this emnity. Is this what you mean by southern-type conservatives?  If so I agree. They're no help here in electing Republicans except when they have sense enough, like Kristen Varley's Tea Party sector, to stay away from social issues with which Massachusetts voters do not agree and never will. So I guess I'm agreeing with you except that none of this has to do with your attack on three good congressional candidates, one of whom was not a birther, and I know nothing about short gays and thugs.  

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 01:33:21 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

We Agree (0.00 / 0)

I got a little carried away with the references to the congressional candidates; I should've stepped away from the computer and counted to 10.

Yes, I think we agree.  By Yankee Republicanism I'm thinking of the libertarianism espoused by Bill Weld and Charlie Baker.  As you said, that kind of Republicanism is the only kind that can win in Massachusetts.  

The focus on social issues by the Mass Family Institute, Mass Citizens for Life, et al. alienates most unenrolled voters, as well as many Republicans (like this one).

Our future does not lie, in my opinion, with Southern-style social conservatism.  

Charlie lost because of specific issues with his campaign strategy and execution, not because he wasn't socially or religiously conservative enough.

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by: yankeegop @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 01:45:44 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Speaking of SocComs. (0.00 / 0)

I have been looking for a place to mention this because I'm still angry (counted to 10, bleep it, want to say this).I was watching the last Connoughton-Bump debate (Braude?, Rooney?) when Suzanne attacked Mary Z for just getting the endorsement of Mass Resistance. Mary Z seemed surprised, responded that two months ago MR was attacking her for something. I had the impression that Camenker never asked her if she wanted to be associated with his group. Last thing she needed, in a close race.
CLT's PAC, and I personally, endorse candidates, but never without asking them first if they want the endorsement.
This morning I received an email attacking Jennifer Nassour and demanding she be replaced with someone who doesn't do interviews with Bay Windows. Toward the end of the AG campaign, Jim McKenna was attacked by MR for the same thing, talking to homosexuals. This was retracted as an "error" the next day. Yes, warped minds do make mistakes in fact as well as judgment.
Don't know if MR is part of the Republican Party's big tent and it's none of my business, not being a Republican, just curious.

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 13:04:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

A Member of the Republican Party (0.00 / 0)

should be determined by the answer to one question: "Would you like to see a government that lowers taxes and cuts services, or a government that raises taxes while increasing public services?" Those that answer the former are Republicans. Those that answer the later are Democrats. End of story. All other issues are secondary - no matter what your stance on any other issue, if you are in favor of smaller government, you belong in the Mass GOP. That should be our message and the one thing we should never compromise on, and the single point we should be drilling into the heads of every voter in the commonwealth. Everything else is negotiable, and we should run candidates that agree with their districts/counties/state on other issues to maximize electability.

This is why I would really like to see Chris Christie as the R presidential candidate in two years. He has a message - a perfect one for the party at large - and both sticks to it with laser-like focus and presents it authentically. It's a shame Baker's campaign didn't do either of those very well.

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by: Phil S @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 03:14:06 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Christie will keep his word (0.00 / 0)

to the people of New Jersey, to fix the state before running for another office. But he will be a wonderful asset for Republican candidates on their campaign trails, as Sarah Palin will continue to be. I agree with your theme, though, Phil S. Keeping it simple and focused.

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 13:09:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

William F. Buckley (0.00 / 0)

in his day when he anathematized the Objectivists & Birchers from the conservative movement & from that point on made the movement's future successes possible. Failure to act upon this form of mission statement will be interpreted by any serious student of politics as a form of suicidal indifference to the party's slide

I think you are on to something here. Unfortunately William Buckley is dead, and there does not seem to be anyone of his stature and intelligence to lead us out of this thicket.

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by: StartedoutRepublican @ Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 21:56:43 PM UTC

All The More Reason Why The Debate/Discussion Is Needed (5.00 / 3)

There are plenty of smart people within the Massachusetts Republican Party who express to me their frustration over the GOP's perceived lack of culture, intelligence, ideology, et al. Many of them in the art circles I travel refuse to identify themselves as Republican - let alone register to vote as such. Yet they crave a political party which isn't hostage to political extremists on the Left or on the Right. Until such a party reinvents itself (GOP) or materializes (a new political party), these voters will remain unenrolled & (in some cases) tolerant of the status quo - which remains the Democrat Party. How sad is that?

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by: The Angelic One @ Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 22:45:08 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Very sad indeed (0.00 / 0)

I was saddened to hear that the tea party folk have targeted Sen Scott Brown. For what I don't know. Maybe they will bring him into a closed room and reeducate him.

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by: StartedoutRepublican @ Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 23:16:35 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not A Good Idea (5.00 / 1)

Scott Brown ain't perfect (none of us are) but he's a hell of a lot better than any alternative that would be offered up by the Democrats.

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 00:00:08 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

The Tea Party is nihilistic (0.00 / 0)

We need to remember that the Tea Party isn't our party, just as we need to remember that shock-jocks like Rush aren't our party.  These people benefit themselves at our expense.  

At the end of the day, the Tea Party and Rush, et al. don't care if the GOP succeeds; in fact, they probably benefit more from our losing and remaining the cranky opposition.

But don't cede anything to the Tea Party.  They're wrong about Scott Brown not only in practice, but also in principle.  In an ideal world, he would be just as conciliatory and pragmatic and representative of his constituents' interests as he is now.

Ideological purity is the desire of disengaged, irresponsible people who are involved in governance.

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by: yankeegop @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 00:10:35 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

=who are NOT involved in governance (0.00 / 0)

oops, mistype

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by: yankeegop @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 00:11:39 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Glad you fixed it -- the obervation is correct (0.00 / 0)

and quite damning to the Tea Party on the deficit and, as a matter of fact, to the pro-lifers.    

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by: StartedoutRepublican @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 12:12:57 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

It's true across the spectrum (5.00 / 1)

On the other side, look at the response of the extreme lef-wing to Tuesday's results.  They blame Obama for being TOO MODERATE.  And who are these critics?  

Bloggers, journalists, academics, and 20-something activists -- namely, people who aren't involved in governance.  

All the "wishy-washy" moderates who blame Obama for being extreme are proven leaders like Evan Bayh.  We have the same problem in the GOP; our loudest, most vitrolic critics among us blame people like Mike Castle, the ladies from Maine, et al. for not being right-wing enough -- and yet Castle, Collins, et al. are electable, experienced and effective.  The "pure" wing-nuts manifestly are not.

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by: yankeegop @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 12:22:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not All Tea Party Activists Are Nihilists (0.00 / 0)

In fact many of them want government on all levels to return to our country's foundational principles of limited government, fiscal responsibility, & personal freedom.

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 02:10:10 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Agree. I'M a tea partier! (0.00 / 0)

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 13:10:28 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I Know, Barbara (0.00 / 0)

You were a Tea Partier decades before the term became popular with the present movement.

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 13:35:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I've just been waiting for them, now hoping (0.00 / 0)

that like CLT they can keep focused on the limited government issues. It amazed me that they were able to keep the social conservatives in line for the good of the country for much of the year. Christen Varley deserves a LOT of credit for this, also Sarah Palin. I just hope the resolution holds.
Also,Chip Ford and some CLT members went through the Ross Perot phenomenon, which focused on the national debt but fell apart when it tried to organize into a centralized party after the election. Fascinating story you all have to hear sometime.

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 21:08:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I Share Your Hope (0.00 / 0)

And look forward to one day listening to you guys talk about the Perot phenomenon as seen from your point of view.

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by: The Angelic One @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:25:21 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

the urban angle (0.00 / 0)

This was an interesting comment, I have been in art for a long time and in many ways, it is a libertarian world. You create things on your own, you may have to sell them on your own, and you get very little help; when you do succeed, however, it is all yours.

As I tried to explain on the BMG, I need rich people, not government support of administrators or arts councils; they are nice but they are really not enough. On the other hand, the philosophy of growth (which the Republicans have pretty much cornered) looks like "growth means more of this." Including all the shitty stuff.

I live in Boston; I was not surprised that none of Boston's concerns made it into the campaign, certainly not the violence, but not the good stuff either, the pretty or classy part. Maybe an urban component is something to include.  

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by: seascraper @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 01:15:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I think it started with urban component (5.00 / 1)

I'm told Yankee Republicans supported the legalization of birth control (and I've wondered why later Republicans never use that bit of history with elusive women voters). The Irish immigrants saw this support as an attempt to keep their numbers down, in order for the smaller-family Yankees to retain control --which may have been true. So the increasing numbers of Irish overcame the Yankees at the ballot box and that was the end of Republican Party dominance.. Eventually Irish then ran the state for decades. Got unionized.  Unions led fight against Republican candidates yesterday. Yankee Republicans also supported bussing. City Democrats understandably still bitter about that.
Could Republican Party change its name and sever its ties with everything that happened in the last century?  

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 01:48:31 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

True (0.00 / 0)

The late Sen. Prescott Bush, Sr. was one of the first leaders of Planned Parenthood in CT.

And now Republicans seem to want to keep Latino Catholic numbers down, if possible.

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by: yankeegop @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 01:53:19 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You are so smart ............ (0.00 / 0)

about most things.

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by: StartedoutRepublican @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 12:14:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

and to keep it all interesting (0.00 / 0)

We all might prefer more Latinos to what Europe has, which is very prolific Muslims.  

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 21:09:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes, and positive population growth (0.00 / 0)

Immigrants, especially Latinos, keep the US population growing and relatively young -- which Europe envies!  Their economies will collapse with their population implosion.

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by: yankeegop @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 01:47:48 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yankee Republicans were blown up by Reagan (0.00 / 0)

The Yankee Republicans were the voice of the party that proposed high taxes and fiscal austerity. They played a losing game during the Depression and basically kept losing until Reagan.

I certainly wouldn't copy their attitude towards immigrant families. The elite never trusted the mob... I don't agree with that. Basically people are good, and we need them to work and produce.

The main Republican points could all be reorganized positively, to appeal to the good and not the evil and envious.

For instance "illegal immigrants bother me" could be reorganized to "world finance hurts poor countries and that's why we have illegal immigrants".

"Poor people shouldn't have got homes from Fannie and Freddie" could be "Let's have policies that increase the incomes of poor people so they can buy homes."

"Black people bother me with the music and the pants" could be "let's have black people succeed in the world where it's important to not dress like a giant toddler, and where effort is rewarded so they don't listen to hateful nihilist music."

Anyway those are some ideas. I have absolutely no instinct for politics but I think that is the right thing to do.  

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by: seascraper @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 01:40:43 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Republicans should embrace free trade of all goods -- including labor (0.00 / 0)

For instance "illegal immigrants bother me" could be reorganized to "world finance hurts poor countries and that's why we have illegal immigrants".

Wrong.  It's stupid to limit the flow of goods -- including labor.  Immigrants -- legal and illegal -- are here because of jobs.  It's supply and demand.  With the recession, immigrations measurably slowed.  Republicans should embrace free trade of all goods -- including labor.

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by: yankeegop @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 01:50:24 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

ohmygod what a powerful statement that I never thought (0.00 / 0)

I would see here on this site.

Wrong.  It's stupid to limit the flow of goods -- including labor.  Immigrants -- legal and illegal -- are here because of jobs.  It's supply and demand.  With the recession, immigrations measurably slowed.  Republicans should embrace free trade of all goods -- including labor.

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by: StartedoutRepublican @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 13:20:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wouldn't it be better for them to stay home (0.00 / 0)

I happen to love my country, and I assume that most other people do too. It's better to be near my family and in a country that speaks my language.

Your proposal is to have the USA be the place where capital is applied properly, while the rest of the world goes to hell. In that case everyone in the world would move to the USA. Wouldn't it be easier to make an example of the USA for the world? Have low tax rates and sound money, and your country can be as good as the USA.  

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by: seascraper @ Sat Nov 06, 2010 at 06:24:04 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

An Urban Component Is An Essential Element (5.00 / 1)

An urban component is an essential element for the revitalization of the state GOP. While Republicans have historically acted as patrons of the arts & continue to do so today, few of them understand how much the arts have changed in ways that have become hostile to Republican interests in business and politics. A lot of what passes for art these days is third-rate propaganda. Even David Mamet has publicly abjured the liberalism of his youth. Republicans should continue to support those aspects of the arts which represent the best our culture has to offer while at the same time acting as independent patrons (& not members of a politically-correct arts council) for those contemporary artists whose critical works speak truth to power (in the best sense of the phrase) against the pervasive nihilism of our present-day culture.

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 02:25:43 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

WFB (4.50 / 2)

When William F. Buckley was alive he earned the opprobrium  of those who lament him now that he is dead. Nothing is more mourned over than a conservative when he is DEAD. When he is alive he is treated as a freak. Bill Buckley LIKED Rush Limbaugh. He would have applauded the Tea Party movement. HE is the one who said that he would rather be ruled by the first 1000 names in the Boston telephone book than by the faculty of Harvard U.

If there is a WFB amoung us, the people who lament Bill NOW would NEVER recognize him. Some day these SAME people are going to sit around and complain that the movement on the right has NObody as sophisticated at Glenn Beck.

---

by: Edward59 @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 06:30:16 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

We need infrastructure and experienced, credible candidates (5.00 / 8)

In my opinion, one of the biggest problems with the Mass GOP is that we don't have anything approaching the kind of grassroots infrastructure that the Democrats have, especially in non-campaign periods.  

Every two or four years, a GOP savior (Baker this year, Weld in the past) comes along and we reinvent the wheel in terms of grassroots infrastructure.

We need to have organized, vibrant GOP committees in every city, town, ward, and precinct; we don't even now after a huge election.  Those committees need to take an active and positive role in our communities, be it parades, fairs, picnics, and festivals.  

We need to grow candidates from the selectman and school committee level, all the way up to state rep and state senate, and finally to Congress.  

Folks like Sean Bielat are great; I'm thrilled we had candidates in every congressional race for once.  But Bielat's resume is relatively thin for a congressional candidate, and voters (usually) don't like to take risks on inexperienced candidates, and understandably so.  

We need more candidates like Dan Winslow, who are experienced, credible, and working their way up to bigger offices.  

And we need policy proposals.  Our GOP candidates can't recite the worn-out mantra "cut taxes" to every challenge that they're faced with.  

Fact is, fiscal conservatism involves a commitment to paying bills and balancing budgets.  There may be situations when certain taxes are raised, though I'd hasten to add that all taxes aren't created equal, some are neutral while others have negative impacts.

But more than that, the Mass GOP needs a POSITIVE message.  Howie Carr may be fun to read (I enjoy his column) but he's a bitter, curmudgeonly SOB, which alienates unenrolled voters, center-right Democrats, women, and educated young people.  And yet that's how most of us sound (myself included) -- windbags full of complaints and vitriol.  

Some of that would be corrected if we had more experience with responsible roles in local government, e.g., serving as selectmen, aldermen, and the like.  

Since the GOP holds so few offices, our political conversations have become increasingly speculative and abstract, disconnected with the realities of governing.  

We Republicans need to role up our sleaves and get involved in the political process at the most local level.  Only by proving ourselves there will be worthy to assume higher offices.

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by: yankeegop @ Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 22:19:46 PM UTC

I Agree, YankeeGOP (5.00 / 1)

But as a former selectman I can tell you without a doubt that, unless our conservative/Republican candidates for local office are intellectually armed with a practical ideology, they'll "go native" either at that level or if/when they graduate to higher office(s). The practical ideology of the Democrats is such that it pulsates as strongly on the local level as it does on Beacon Hill. Isn't it telling that it's ONLY conservatives/Republicans (according to the media arbiters of such things) who "grow" into the job - so long as said growth involves embracing components of the Democrat Party's practical ideology?

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by: The Angelic One @ Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 22:55:51 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Something is missing in this discussion, (0.00 / 0)

not sure what exactly. Maybe the changes in the world since Buckley did what when? It was during his heyday that Goldwater (Mr. Conservative, with libertarian leanings even then) lost, and then Reagan won. Ten years later, Ray Shamie,a social conservative who lost his own U.S. Senate election partly because he was accused of being tied to Birchers, led his MA Republican party to victory with libertarian Bill Weld. So somehow a combination of various factions still managed to win.
I just don't see how anyone can blame Republicans for losing when they run the most qualified, non-ideological, much endorsed candidate for Auditor, and she loses to Suzanne Bump!

---

by: Barbara Anderson @ Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 23:08:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

more of them than there are of us (0.00 / 0)

and the Democratic coordinated campaign included Suzanne. We have no such internal structure.  

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by: StartedoutRepublican @ Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 23:19:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Voter Registration Drive (0.00 / 0)

Instead of focusing on recruiting unfit congressional candidates who scare the hell out of reasonable people (including this lifelong loyal Republican), the Mass GOP should be focused on organizing wards and precincts, and on VOTER REGISTRATION DRIVES at every fair, picnic, parade, festival, etc.

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by: yankeegop @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 00:14:08 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm having a hard time imagining (0.00 / 0)

people lined up at state fairs to register Republican.  Or Democrat for that matter. More and more voters want to be Independents. Can't we just convince them to vote with Republicans when they are right?
The congressional candidates were fine.  You are easily scared, yankee; the trick is to not believe the propaganda.

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 00:51:03 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Right on, StartedOutRepublican (0.00 / 0)

And your observation begs the following questions:

Is it possible for any similar kind of "internal structure" to be successfully replicated by the state GOP?

Would the state party even make an effort to do so if given the opportunity?

In fact, is the concept even worthy of GOP consideration?

It should be. At least to me. But that's a discussion for another day.  

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 00:25:05 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

A coordinated campaign adiscussion for another day? (0.00 / 0)

We'd better start now to develop a ground game if we want to protect Scott Brown and our Republican gains in the House in 2012.

A few inches down on this diary Barbara Anderson says:

how do Republicans, who have jobs, compete at ground game? The unions order the troops to show up during work hours, their union shops make the signs and flyers, they are funded by enforced dues. This is not going to change in 14 months.

I remind her that union members do have jobs, and they do take days off or even get personal leaves to campaign AGAINST Republican candidates who support legislation to make it impossible for workers to organize themselves to protect their interests in the workplace and in the political arena.

So what do we do? We organize our small but smart critical mass of Republicans to schedule themselves a couple of hours a week to build a field organization. That's what's been happening since January in the state party.

While we sat back and counted on the Brown factor.  
Thgat'[s Retired persons can devote more time --  
Our small but OUr small .we can;t count on hat do dsystematically fight unionization bad mouth try to  

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by: StartedoutRepublican @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 12:27:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

First Things First (0.00 / 0)

When I responded to your comment on political organization with the "another day" tag, it was said with an eye towards developing the idea in another post dedicated to the topic. Don't assume my tag meant the idea shouldn't be pursued. It should. It's one of many components our state committee (along with our party's city/town committees) should be developing before the next election cycle.

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 13:30:38 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The other side's ground game (5.00 / 1)

From the Herald -

"Walsh described the strategy as "shockingly simple": The party collected voter and volunteer lists from candidates statewide to compile a database of 900,000 voters to target.

As soon as the polls opened, observers took up stations in 1,300 precincts, where they took down the names of voters who showed up.

At 10 a.m., the poll observers reported who had already voted. A team of eight staffers at the campaign headquarters in Boston manned computer terminals where that information was entered electronically and projected onto a wall map.

Whoever hadn't voted by 10 a.m. got a home visit from volunteers asking for votes.The process was repeated again at 1 p.m. and 4 p.m. with volunteers knocking on doors until 8 p.m."

Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. - H. L. Mencken

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by: MiracleGirl @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 18:23:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Andy Card did this in NH for Bush 41 in 1988 (5.00 / 1)

Without PCs.

This is not hard, it is labor intensive. Hell it doesnt even have to be done perfectly to work!

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by: Vincent Errichetti @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 20:54:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Fusionism Breeds Success When Properly Utilized (5.00 / 1)

Regarding GOP Auditor candidate Mary Connaughton, I, too, was disappointed in her loss. A Democrat friend of mine told me today he felt that her repetitive use of canned talking points during a TV forum initially hurt her image - "She lacked authenticity," was his observation - and her inability to cite concrete proposals on what she would do as state auditor - & how said proposals would benefit the public - was a lost opportunity to secure key voting blocks. Still, I thought she was the party's best shot at winning a state-wide office & I hope she'll take another crack at the position four years from now.

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 02:45:53 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

People didn't vote against Mary, they just didn't vote for her (5.00 / 1)

I think Connaughton and Polito suffered from the "R" attached to their names, as the GOP congressional candidates seemed to increase Dem turnout in places like the 4th.  

But there biggest problem was lack of name recognition.  Even in the last polls of those races, which had Mary ahead, there were HUGE minorities of voters (25%) who were undecided.  My guess is that those people were not fired-up Republicans or engaged unenrolled voters.  And they obviously don't put much stock in the Globe's op-ed page.  They were pro-Frank, anti-Hudak, and anti-Perry voters who weren't excited to vote for other Republicans.  

I thought Mary ran a terrific campaign, especially considering it was for auditor.  I don't think people proactively voted against her.  She should definitely run again.  Unlike Charlie (and it pains me to say this), she didn't let her opponent successfully define her.

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by: yankeegop @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 02:58:55 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm Hip To Your Point Of View (5.00 / 3)

In fact, Connaughton should appoint herself "Shadow Auditor" and through YouTube provide to the public a quarterly or monthly audit of Bump's tenure as State Auditor for the next four years. Such a move would keep Connaughton (& Bump) in the public eye. The "Shadow Auditor" should praise Bump if she goes after legitimate abuses done by members of her party or even abuses done by members of the GOP. Yet Connaughton should also feel free to condemn Bump if the State Auditor refuses to do her job & offer sensible approaches that Connaughton would utilize if SHE were State Auditor (hint, hint; nudge, nudge)! Either Bump rises to the challenge laid down by the "Shadow Auditor" or Connaughton runs against Bump four years from now yet does so from a position of strength. Either way, the taxpayer wins!

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 03:15:27 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

This is the role she played on the Turnpike board - the Toll Talk lady (0.00 / 0)

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 04:05:03 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I Can Hear The Radio Commercials Now: (5.00 / 1)

"Who knows what public corruption lurks uninvestigated by State Auditor Suzanne Bump? The Shadow Auditor knows! Bwahahahahaha!"

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 14:40:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes (0.00 / 0)

I think in this election the Democrats desperatly conducted a triage and the sorry state of Massachusetts was the recipient of all their concentrated energy.

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by: Edward59 @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 06:33:25 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

experienced, credible candidates (0.00 / 0)

This would be nice.  Very nice.

Given the number of uncontested races I've seen happen on the North Shore over the years, any one who is willing to put themselves out there is a good candidate in my opinion.

Better then having only a D name on the ballot election after election after election.

My .02 worth....


Richard A. Jolitz

Once, and future, candidate


 

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by: NorthShoreRich @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 00:38:11 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

My thoughts... (4.67 / 3)

Pardon this intrusion by a Nutmegger who mostly follows Mass politics because I usually work in Worcester or Metrowest...

The lack of party infrastructure is a significant problem in both many "blue" states, Connecticut as well as yours.  

When I look at the national maps from last night, places like Ohio can swing because both parties have healthy state organizations.  One significant factor in the sclerosis of blue that grips the coasts is that the losing team has lost so often no one wants to join and learn the plays.  Rivalry -- not demagoguery but true competitive rivalry is a healthy thing.  But it's not much fun once you start losing all the time and it becomes a feedback cycle -- you keep losing because you always lose.

Breaking out of it requires hard, boring work.  

I was a volunteer firefighter for many years, and I think about some of the training classes -- some mandated by OSHA, others by peer pressure.  Plus our own weekly departmental drills.

Electing Republicans to be on school boards, finance committees, and Selectmen is only part of the work.  It's probably the easy part.  It's sort of like joining the volunteer department...it's after you join the hard, boring, not public nor flashy but necessary stuff happens.

I ask this question of those more involved in the party politics...what training is given to candidates?

Sure, sometimes you luck out and recruit someone with a good head on their shoulders -- either the rare natural born leader, or someone who has cut their teeth in business for twenty years learning from the school of life.

But let's face it -- a lot of our politicians aren't the best managers, or numbers people, or communicators.  Especially on the conservative / small-government side many come into to be against things.

It's a natural advantage to the Democrats that they can play the "cool Mom" who lets their kids have drinking parties and gives away other people's money; it's not fun to be the sober, responsible parent that small government conservatives have to play.  So the Democrats attract people who like to get things done, the Republicans end up settling for whose willing to be a speed bump.

What do the parties to develop candidates?  

What do the Republicans do to present a clear, consistent story of "Why?"  What contrasts can we draw that are non-threatening and positive?  (By the way, Nancy Duarte's book Resonate is an excellent read).

More importantly, what training do we give our school, finance, and selectmmen board members not just in Republican philosophy but also how to be effective in political leadership?  

Political leadership of towns -- not the party.  That is, do we train them how to read a budget and be able to articulate clear arguments?  Or are the left to the mercy of the local bureaucrats and entrenched spend-more Democrats, without the knowledge of how to point out bad things in the budget?

What training are they given by the party to be familiar with, say, labor negotiations?  So they can sound competent at public hearings instead of just being a nattering nabob of negativism?

What does the party do to make sure our politicians have the opportunity to be professional (not in pay or career but in contrast to being untrained amateurs)?

I'm sure getting people to such seminars and classes would be the same as having to herd cats at the firehouse to get volunteers to state-mandated classes.  

But I really believe part of the solution here in the New England is for the Republican parties of all six states to work not only to elect local politicians, but to then train them to be GOOD at their elected responsibilities -- to be able to articulate an intelligent, coherent alternative policy position to the Democrats.

---

by: Dalmatian190 @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 00:41:43 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Howie isn't bitter. (0.00 / 0)

Howie is a true believer in freedom and personal responsiblity but he is, always, having fun. It wouldn't hurt any of us to lighten up. I can laugh myself as long as it's about Massachusetts, which face it, hardly matters in the grand scheme of things.  It wasn't until Obama because president that things became "not funny", especially to students of history.
I hear what you are saying about starting at the local level but I've been hearing it for thirty years,  meanwhile voters have been losing interest in parties altogether.  Maybe we need a new paradigm that focuses on issues, not parties.  Wait, isn't that the Tea Party?

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 21:19:08 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Issues don't win elections (5.00 / 1)

Until issues-based activism (a la Tea Party) proves itself to be more than a bunch of disgruntled retirees who have given up on politics, I don't think it's a useful way for winning elections.

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by: yankeegop @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 01:54:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Angelic Stoned (0.00 / 0)

I guess you were unhappy with California vote - for anyone to understand your ism's - philosophy you need to be smoking.

You are the problem!

One word - Leadership - where? on all fronts...

Stop with your practical ideology - pack you bags head back to teaching college were you belong.

Mass GOP - "block and tackle" the basics bitch!

Leadership!

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by: WesternmassGOP @ Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 23:24:32 PM UTC

Want To See The Face Of A Republican Failure? (5.00 / 2)

Take a look in your (cracked) mirror, dude.

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 02:55:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Eating (0.00 / 0)

I'll be eating for the next hour or so - this will give you ample time to write out your resume and tell everyone here at RMG who you are and why you are so smart.

I am sure you are so proud of all your Republican accomplishments. You may even have a few ladies from RMG come to your defense.

....

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by: WesternmassGOP @ Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 23:28:25 PM UTC

It's time to man-up (5.00 / 2)

Folks --- why do you fret over this ?  There are elections coming to plan on.  Their ground game ate us up as it did in 2006.  The Dems are damn good at it and they take pride in it. So, in about 14 months we have another go at it---

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by: christy2010 @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 00:08:53 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

True enough, Christy, but... (5.00 / 2)

how do Republicans, who have jobs, compete at ground game? The unions order the troops to show up during work hours, their union shops make the signs and flyers, they are funded by enforced dues. This is not going to change in 14 months.
 

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 00:23:49 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Organize, organize, organize (5.00 / 2)

We have PAID FULL-TIME Mass GOP staff who should take the lead in the coming months.  

We also have 75 colleges and universities with hundreds of thousands of students; is the state party organizing and utilizing this ENORMOUS resource effectively?

We can also organize GOP committees in every city, town, ward, and precinct.  (Unless we have an organized presence on the ground in every city and town  -- not just on blogs, as important as they are -- we have NO hope of changing the tide.)

We can have a GOP presence at every community event.  

We can have monthly GOP voter registration drives in our cities and towns.  

We can start monthly bar nights for GOP folks to socialize and connect.  

We can start tea and coffee hours to engage center-right people who aren't comfortable with the alpha-male bias of GOP events (thank God Baker's sports bar events are over!).  

We can start PACs that can raise money and build connections in ways that the Mass GOP can't.

---

by: yankeegop @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 00:58:48 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Couple of Thoughts (5.00 / 1)

Drinking conservatively sounds like fun.  Have been to a couple of drinking liberally and the discussion, frankly, was fun.  Good arguments had by all, but the name scares me from a public perception perspective.

Yes, we need are state party folks more involved, and maybe they are in some places, but the only real communications I get from the party are requests for money.  Heck I can get that almost anywhere these days.

Time for blocking and tackling. Infrastructure and muni elections in 2011 and GOTV and building on state rep and senate in 2012 while, and this is huge, re-electing Scott Brown.

And so I don't leave it unsaid, this means taking a pass on heavy duty campaigning for whomever is the Presidential nominee from the Republican Party.  Obama will win MA so let's focus on the things we can win.  We have limited resources and need to allocate them effectively.

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by: ConsEph @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 01:10:20 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Union members & the ground game (0.00 / 0)

I remind you that union members do have jobs, ( or they are unemployed like some of us) and they do take days off or even get personal leaves to campaign AGAINST Republican candidates who support legislation to make it impossible for workers to organize themselves to protect their interests in the workplace and in the political arena.

Besides from what I understand from my two nieces, the volunteers in the Dem ground game in the suburbs at least, were NOT union members they had never met before, but neighbors and friends they had been working with for weeks.

My nieces counted up their volunteer hours over the last two weeks as 20 hours. Mostly on weekends going door to door in their neighborhood.  

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by: StartedoutRepublican @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 12:36:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Compete every day (5.00 / 1)

 There are more of us funding this corrupt system than there are of them taking it from us each day.  You did it when no one else did in 1980 and it saved our State. we can do it again. I'm of Spartan Blood--we never give up.
I bet, if you go back a few hundred years---there's Spartan Blood in you.

---

by: christy2010 @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 15:02:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

But I'm Italian! (0.00 / 0)

Molon Labe

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 20:56:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Many of the waring factions traversed throu Italy and especially Sicaly. So yes, you are of Spartan blood, you mutt you ! (me too ) (0.00 / 0)

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by: politicalmadman @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 18:54:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

oh yeah!! (0.00 / 0)

I am Spartacus!  


Molon Labe

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 19:57:45 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm Croatian, Irish, German (0.00 / 0)

We just fight Serbs and other Irish, start world wars...

---

by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 21:22:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Agree Sort of (0.00 / 0)

We have municipal elections in one year, less in some places, we need to work to start bringing balance to the municipal level there first.

I sincerely believe that a message of fiscal conservatism and realism will be better received first at the local level.  Many cities and towns are already in fiscal trouble and many more have it on the way.  Even more have huge storm clouds forming with changes to pension accounting being promulgated by GASB (yeah I read accounting pronouncements) which will have enormous impacts on local budgets for, not years, but decades.

This is where a coherent approach to recruiting candidates, volunteers and providing support can lay the groundwork for 2012 and beyond.  But it cannot be all cut taxes, etc.  It needs to be realistic.  I hate to say it, but realism includes potential tax increases at the local level if the resident taxpayers are willing and want to pay more.  This is one way we can distinguish and differentiate ourselves, fiscal conservatism with a combination of local control supplemented by state level support to ensure that those needing a helping hand receive it. This is not anti union, anti tax, anti anything.  Its pro-people, pro-local control and pro-personal responsibility.

But we need to start focusing on local elections now and that includes a real ground game.  In football parlance, we need north south runners and lunch bucket guys as this hail mary offense is not working.

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by: ConsEph @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 00:34:54 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

We had local control before Prop 2 1/2 (0.00 / 0)

AND the highest property taxes in the world.  Somehow I don't think it would be helpful to solicit membership in the Republican Party while running an override election to raise property taxes.  And if you're not anti-public employee union, you are missing the nature of the opposition, that will bankrupt the state with its demands.

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 00:55:42 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Barbara, I think we agree (0.00 / 0)

I am in favor of local control but for very specific purposes.  If you want a new school then pass a debt exclusion don't ask me to pay for Newton's High School.  Other, budget overrides drive me batty.

I am also a frequent writer and speaker in my municipality on the burden we are facing with unfunded pension liabilities and OPEB, and this is before we get to GASB changes in 2013.  I will not say I am anti-union per se.  I will say that they either need to be part of the solution or they will force the municipality's hand and no one will walk away in good shape.

I thank you for keeping my focus where it needs to be and that is on raising the issues with these pensions and retiree health care and what it is costing the cities and towns of the state.

One of my favorite questions - Do you know what the combined total of your unfunded pension and OPEB liabilities is and how will you pay for it?  Most people do not know and are shocked to find out what it is and that there is no plan.

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by: ConsEph @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 01:20:51 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I think the plan is head in the sand (0.00 / 0)

as long as possible, then declare bankruptcy :~) And look, it's all Democrats in charge of overseeing this, with a few new Republican legislators to help let everyone know what is happening because the state Auditor and Treasurer aren't likely to notice.  I think, ConsEph, you have found the silver lining in yesterday's cloud.  

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 01:55:47 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes, it seems that way (0.00 / 0)

Also to refer to the issue as "just accounting" which seems to give all involved a free pass at confronting the issue.

I also blame Charlie and the Republicans up on Beacon Hill for supporting municipal relief that includes extending the time to fund pensions from 2030 to 2040.  All this did was push the issue further down the road.  Its not relief, its avoidance.

We have also avoided requiring funding for post retirement medical benefits.  This would and cshould be a wake-up call for taxpayers as to how unsustainable these benefits are, but we avoid the discussion and the issue.

Heck, Kellogg comes out with a study that Boston's pension plan will be broke in 2019 at the present rate and this does not even factor in the multi-billion post retirement mediacl obligation they have.  Yet, not a word from anyone but Menino saying they are all wrong and we can keep paying.

Put the numbers in front of people and ask for a plan to fund it and I think you can start to push real reform.  Could even envision a commercial with the "where's the beef" lady except with "where's the money".

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by: ConsEph @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 12:42:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You are right (0.00 / 0)

and, I predict that we will face these things when California collapses. Good news! it just elected Governor Moonbeam.  So we may get to face them sooner than we thought! We being those Democrats, of course. Can Suzanne Bump audit bankruptcy?

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 21:26:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Can Suzanne Bump audit bankruptcy? (0.00 / 0)

She can't audit! That is the one result from Tuesday that I just don't understand. I feel horrible for Mary given the fact that she did everything right. She ran a clean campaign, she got the endorsements, and she was supremely qualified. Bump may be an upgrade from DeNucci, but not by a lot.  

"Never, never, never give up" - Winston Churchill

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by: David Whelan @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 22:35:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

She Never Said She Could Audit (0.00 / 0)

That's the part that gets me.  She was very clear that she would be on Beacon Hill working on policy and related matter while letting the people in the office handle the audits. But what happens when they come back with issues from an accounting or auditing perspective, how will Bump analyze them?  My only thought is from a political/policy/legal perspective because that's what she knows.  That's not a knock on her, but its not what an auditor needs to know and be able to assess in the fast changing world we live in now.  There are big changes coming to accounting (government, cost, benefits, etc) that she will need to audit and review.  Hope she has a real good staff, she'll need them.

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by: ConsEph @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 22:55:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Two things we need to figure out (0.00 / 0)

I get the part where the Dems turned out voters for Deval and the congressional races. They voted D.  But a lot of them knew enough to stop for a moment and vote for Mary Z. Even more of them, in some places, went on to vote R for state rep. Why?

First thoughts. Mary's excellent campaign and endorsements did pay off, just not enough. And politics really is local, and voters choose state reps for other reasons than party or ideology.  To the points made in this discussion: we need candidates who are active in the local community.  Don't have to run for office, necessarily, can work with local taxpayer groups and other civic groups. We had a great candidate in Kate Kozitza, but she was new to politics and not a native of this area, running against the incumbent who grew up here and became known as an environmental activist. Brett Schetzle was also new to Beverly.

However, Senate candidate Chris Dent was "local" in a small town while incumbent was part of the nearby city machine.  This is always difficult.  

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 22:57:56 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

We need to be positive, pragmatic, and concrete (0.00 / 0)

We need to develop new ways of articulating our ideas.  

We need to reframe fiscal conservatism in positive, pragmatic terms.  

"Cut taxes" sounds like abstract, ideological nothingness.  Seventy-five percent of Mass voters don't care about "taxes", they care about fixing lightposts, plowing streets, repainting crosswalks, MCAS scores, garbage collection, and the like.  

We need to go concrete, concrete, concrete.

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by: yankeegop @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 01:06:07 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Problem is that tax increases have long been a substitute (0.00 / 0)

for actually managing the state and getting "the like" done. Increase taxes, put off reforms. Cut or limit taxes, force reforms (eg, Bill Weld and welfare reform).

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 01:58:59 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

One Acronym: TABOR (0.00 / 0)

On twitter @bfrivers

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by: brivers @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 02:00:07 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'd love TABOR but (2.00 / 1)

unfotunately, it requires a constitutional amendment, which requires legislative co-operation after signature collection, so who is going to do all that for nothing?
I know!! hey, Carla, you doing anything next year?

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 21:28:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not even 14 months.... (5.00 / 2)

we have local elections coming up next year in many areas.  Even tuesday night we were talking on Beverly about the fact we need to his the ground running at that level.

The need to look ahead to 2012 is obvious.  Shouldn't we take a step back and work on the getting republicans into city office in '11, then work on the start of '12?

At least my opinion.


Richard A. Jolitz

Once, and future, candidate


 

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by: NorthShoreRich @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 00:36:14 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Absolutely! (0.00 / 0)

I think that's exactly the response the GOP should have in the wake of last night's returns.

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by: yankeegop @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 01:07:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

It's amazing how many posts here have "all of the solutions"... (5.00 / 1)

...when such solutions were never even put into place, long before November 2, 2010 happened in Massachusetts. The reality is that there are not enough actual voter numbers on the GOP/conservative side throughout Massachusetts, and all people have to do is look at the political patterns throughout Massachusetts between today and the past sixty years. Tons of feedback on what happened in Massachusetts is good, but when the next election results show too much of the same exact things where the Massachusetts GOP/conservatives lose very badly, yet again, then what is all of this feedback for? What's the point? Massachusetts is a lost cause for the GOP and for conservatism, forever! Just try to, successfully, get around all of the new pro-leftist Massachusetts voters, who are illegal immigrants-this will happen. Do yourselves a favor and move out of Massachusetts, if you can afford to do so, or else, you will be in for some more big time losses on the Massachusetts GOP/conservative side, for the rest of your lives. Massachusetts is finished, forever, and they will be a socialistic area, forever. Wake up and move out of Massachusetts, asap, or dream on and play "optimistic games", for the rest of your lives.

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by: johnthebaptistmoore @ Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 23:38:06 PM UTC

60% of Mass voters are NOT Democrats (0.00 / 0)

First, we can boost GOP registrations by proactively asking people to register as Republicans.  That would be a good start, and something we have never tried.  Put college volunteers to work off-season running registration drives!

Second, there's no dearth of fiscally conservative voters in Massachusetts; 60% of voters are not Democrats.  If the Mass GOP made an organized effort to a) understand and b) engage "unenrolled" voters we could become a competitive force in local and state elections.

Third, apathy is our Achilles' heel.  We can't retire to the comfort of blogs, talk radio, and Fox News.  We must be engaged in the life of our communities.

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by: yankeegop @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 01:14:32 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Despair Is Not An Option (5.00 / 1)

I love Massachusetts & I'll never give up on my home state. Is it a challenge to fight against the forces of Bay State socialism? You bet! Is it impossible? Not to me.  

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 03:00:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Outnumbered indeed.... (1.00 / 1)

In a previous post I explain why.

http://www.redmassgroup.com/sh...

As much respect that I have for Angelic One, Mass is done...period.

Just as trying to get a LIBERAL elected in Oklahoma, being a conservative in Mass. is futile.

"From MY cold dead hands"

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by: Knightbrigade @ Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 23:56:57 PM UTC

GOOD news is (0.00 / 0)

mASS gets to LOSE one of these liberal creatures, in the redistrict process. Silver lining thing and all.......  

"From MY cold dead hands"

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by: Knightbrigade @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 00:01:06 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Great To Hear From You Again, Knight (5.00 / 1)

But I haven't given up on Massachusetts. I can't. It's my home state.

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 03:20:11 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Just try telling this to all of the nutty "Optimism Cool-Aid Drinkers"... (0.00 / 0)

...who keep believing, "Next time! Next time! Don't give up! Keep up the good fight! Think positive! We will get them next time!"...then losing very badly, over and over and over...It's a wasted effort by people who are not dealing with reality, and it's very sad to see it in action, during each and every Massachusetts election cycle. Unless they do the SANE thing and really move out of Massachusetts, they will continue to play this game for the rest of their lives, while getting the same results, each and every time, over and over. Massachusetts is a lost cause. Move out, if you can.

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by: johnthebaptistmoore @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 05:44:56 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

GULP GULP GULP GULP [Belch] (0.00 / 0)

What did he say?  I wasn't paying attention.


Molon Labe

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 20:58:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Good first step (0.00 / 0)

After three months of talking to people, campaigning for some sort of move to the right within the Tea Party here there was a common premise.  We have democrats, not real democrats but card-carrying members of the socialist party yet the majority could not tell the difference between democrats and republicans on the political spectrum. This is truly sad, the R brand has such a stigma in this state that a Constitutionalist like Bill Gunn could not get the support he needed because he was branded as an R.

In retrospect, I had some concerns earlier over some new comers being elected in the primaries, notably running against Frank and Neal. As I predicted in the Neal race he took the northern sector that was a strong hold of the loser in the primary. Another factor would be the coalitions, the strength mostly established over a long time in the most contested areas that were composed of democrats, liberals, independents and some republicans in the Tea Party. I am not looking for another who is the best speaker contest but strategy discussion as all were an excellent choice. From my perspective I could see there was a diminished enthusiasm having worked with someone for so long then having to jump ship to support someone new. In my opinion, your campaign for next election starts now to build a strong coalition and have everyone on the same ship, that ship should be Constitutional Center.  

Getting back to a practical ideology helping the GOP find its identity is the Tea Party, the Constitutionalist that is Constitutional Center without compromise. This states GOP has almost compromised in to the communist party on the political spectrum, I put a proper political spectrum in my diary. Constitutional Center is the Big Tent if you understand the political spectrum but you have to prove it and as important prove your opponent is not.  

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by: 1stRichard @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 01:26:18 AM UTC

Good first step (0.00 / 0)

After three months of talking to people, campaigning for some sort of move to the right within the Tea Party here there was a common premise.  We have democrats, not real democrats but card-carrying members of the socialist party yet the majority could not tell the difference between democrats and republicans on the political spectrum. This is truly sad, the R brand has such a stigma in this state that a Constitutionalist like Bill Gunn could not get the support he needed because he was branded as an R.

In retrospect, I had some concerns earlier over some new comers being elected in the primaries, notably running against Frank and Neal. As I predicted in the Neal race he took the northern sector that was a strong hold of the loser in the primary. Another factor would be the coalitions, the strength mostly established over a long time in the most contested areas that were composed of democrats, liberals, independents and some republicans in the Tea Party. I am not looking for another who is the best speaker contest but strategy discussion as all were an excellent choice. From my perspective I could see there was a diminished enthusiasm having worked with someone for so long then having to jump ship to support someone new. In my opinion, your campaign for next election starts now to build a strong coalition and have everyone on the same ship, that ship should be Constitutional Center.  

Getting back to a practical ideology helping the GOP find its identity is the Tea Party, the Constitutionalist that is Constitutional Center without compromise. This states GOP has almost compromised in to the communist party on the political spectrum, I put a proper political spectrum in my diary. Constitutional Center is the Big Tent if you understand the political spectrum but you have to prove it and as important prove your opponent is not.  

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by: 1stRichard @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 01:26:19 AM UTC

Question 3 Coattails? (5.00 / 3)

I think as a party we have not done ourselves any favors by underestimating the level of dependence that has formed at a town level.  We tend to focus on big ticket races like governor in the attempt to be the adult supervision in the state.  We should be focusing instead on town races to break this cycle of dependence first - start electing town committees that are willing to go it alone without state aid.  Ballot initiatives like Question 3 play right into this weakness (I was a strong supporter all along but now am rethinking this position)

These kamikaze mission ballot initiatives get the establishment fired up and they have a lot of sway beginning at the local level.  They can raise the specter of massive local aid cuts as a tool to get the general public on their side.  The town politicians work closely with the state and then federal officials to spread this fear.

I was watching the crowd during a recent town festival - the booth for the Maynard Democratic town committee (made up of local unions, town council, etc..) was hosting both the local state Rep (Hogan) and also the Federal Rep (Tsongas) - I'm sure the conversations went something along the lines of - please don't support Question 3, it will slash all local aid and we will end up having to lay off all the teachers and firefighters... by the way have you met Reps Hogan and Tsongas - if you vote for them they will keep supporting us (i.e. keep the money coming into town).  

I'm sure this scene was repeated all over the state over the last couple months.  The threat of massive local aid cuts is a huge motivator to preserve the status quo and when the local reps tell you that XXX rep in Washington is their friend and will help bring home more of your fair share of federal money people here buy into it.  Until we can offer a viable plan for lower spending at a town level we are never going to have success forcing changes on the towns from the top down - the existing state reps have no motivation to cut anything except local aid thereby passing along the most pain.  In my opinion the ballot question worked against us in this case and had coatails that pulled along weaker democratic candidates who may well have been more vulnerable otherwise.

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by: MW_Maynard @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 02:26:35 AM UTC

Great Observation, MW_Maynard (5.00 / 1)

The practical ideology of the Democrats relies on having the state's 351 cities & towns subservient to Beacon Hill. A Republican practical ideology would advocate the opposite approach: have Beacon Hill subservient to the cities & towns. One immediate impact of such a paradigm shift would be the increased importance of local elected officials along with the commensurate loss of power of Beacon Hill politicians and the cadres of special interests who ply their trade over there. Obviously a lot of thought would have to go into designing checks & balances to protect the interests of cities & towns as well as the state itself. But Massachusetts has a long history of creating formulas to advance a variety of public policies which have ultimately benefitted the state. It's time for the state GOP to design a formula (or a series of formulas) which benefits the cities & towns. If successful, such an approach would create a significant paradigm shift that would transform Massachusetts from a Blue state into a Red one.

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 03:35:03 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Won't ever happen. The Massachusetts GOP continues to be very weak, very clueless, and very hopeless. (0.00 / 0)

And the Massachusetts Democrats like it like that!

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by: johnthebaptistmoore @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 07:18:03 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Are You Channeling Glump? (0.00 / 0)

You know, the character in the old animated TV series "Gulliver's Travels" whose constant refrain was one of perpetual pessimism. "We're doomed," he'd moan. "We're never going to make it." You listen to a guy like that long enough & even a happy GOP warrior like The Gipper would take the pipe or jump off a ledge! Thank God our Founding Fathers were never swayed by that level of hopelessness!

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 13:50:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

What would Barbara Anderson think? (0.00 / 0)

I think as a party we have not done ourselves any favors by underestimating the level of dependence that has formed at a town level.  We tend to focus on big ticket races like governor in the attempt to be the adult supervision in the state.  We should be focusing instead on town races to break this cycle of dependence first - start electing town committees that are willing to go it alone without state aid.  Ballot initiatives like Question 3 play right into this weakness (I was a strong supporter all along but now am rethinking this position)

How, in this whole wide world would anyone win a local election for Selectman pledging to refuse local aid?  

Every candidate I ever met, runs for local office or State Rep and/or State Sen office promising to fight for more.

Please.  

Maybe Barbara knows a candidate who has done such a thing and won.

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by: StartedoutRepublican @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 12:51:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Former school committee member (0.00 / 0)

Advocating against fighting hard for local aid before or after being elected locally would render a candidate unelectable. The problem with the entire process at the local level is that cities and towns are screwed without local aid. The bigger problem at the local level is the disproportionate level of aid given to urban communities. The other real issue is that urban communities NEVER override prop 2 1/2 so over the years the dependancy on local aid in urban areas has only grown. This is a very interesting and frustrating conversation. Being a local official can be rewarding but incredibly frustrating.

"Never, never, never give up" - Winston Churchill

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by: David Whelan @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 13:11:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Changing Mindsets (0.00 / 0)

I agree - it would be a fairly quixotic candidate who promised to stop accepting state aid altogether right away.

Candidates would have to run on a platform of promoting stable business growth locally and promoting tax platforms to achieve this type of revenue growth to offset the changes in state aid.  In my town businesses are currently taxed at a rate 50% higher than residences - because of this there are also numerous TIFs that greatly reduce the amount of revenue available.  These TIFs are unpopular as the tend to benefit bigger corporations and not small business owners who are more likely to live in town.  A uniform tax policy I think could be a good platform to run on - along with a focus on getting better assessments for commercial properties.  Over time this will lead to a higher tax base to offset the state aid.

The other big change we should all be pushing for is the legislation to free towns to change benefits packages without having to negotiate with each union.  I think this would also resonate with the public - many are not aware of how tied the hands of the BOS are when it comes to benefits (this is a huge part of town budgets).

In any case candidates should have a 5-10 year plan of gradually reducing the reliance on state aid to pay for day to day operations - and that any state money that does come in would be used to pay down existing debts and not just increased spending.  

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by: MW_Maynard @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 15:06:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Since you asked.. (0.00 / 0)

CLT fought for local aid for over a decade after Prop 2 1/w passed, then watched the local governments hand it over to the public employee unions, especially in benefits that are now causing our local unfunded liabilities that will eventually bankrupt many communities. So we don't care if local aid is cut. Unions see it and demand it.
However, as you say, this is the Republican mantra that made it hard for Charlie and many state rep candidates to justify tax cuts.
It's a lot like "bringing home the bacon" at the federal level, will be interesting to see Tea Party newbies fight the battle of the earmarks.

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 21:37:57 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Local Aid Cuts (0.00 / 0)

I hadn't thought of the local aid as a Republican thing previously.  I guess I have only seen it in its current form - the currency used to keep Democrats in power.  At this point I am very much for cutting it or eliminating it altogether - but I don't think the ballot initiatives are the way to do it.  Because of the way it is now administered if it gets shut off quickly they will just punish people in order to get them to vote for the prop 2.5 overrides to cover the difference.  You see it in the paper all the time - school budget is tight the first thing to go are the sports teams and buses - no word of union mandated health plans...

I think that if we are going to be successful as a party we need to have an alternative plan to walk it back over time in a way that doesn't decimate all local services.  This needs to start with plans to deal with (or even just start highlighting) the unfunded liabilities the towns all have due to pensions and healthcare costs.  If the state legislature won't pass legislation freeing the towns to pool costs or modify plans without prior union approval maybe this needs to be the next ballot initiative.  I could see it being much easier to design a successful ad campaign for this - put it in the public eye that there are other choices than just laying off teachers when you need to cut the budget.

Maybe start an ad campaign this coming spring ahead of municipal elections breaking down a municipal budget and how many of the expenses are unnecessary and are only there to satisfy special interests.  Don't wait for the next full election cycle - change needs to start at the town levels well in advance.  Don't wait to offer these ideas as reactions to their threats but rather as proactive proposals before the threats can even come.

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by: MW_Maynard @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 02:15:47 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Gotta get better and explaining why public employees (0.00 / 0)

don't deserve a good wage and a decent pension.

And .............

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by: StartedoutRepublican @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 16:49:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I think they do deserve a good salary.... (0.00 / 0)

...and a 401K.  I think that we need to change the municipal model to follow the rest of the country - employees get a good wage, pay ~20% of their own healthcare expenses with a plan offered at the design of the employer, and contribute to their own retirement account (i would even support an employer match of ~3-5%).  This would take effect for all new employees (maybe those existing under 30 as well) - for long time employees I do think we need to honor the agreements already made.  I don't agree with those agreements but I don't think they can be wiped out completely at this point.  

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by: MW_Maynard @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 17:49:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

But Its More Than That (0.00 / 0)

Good Wage, for a good days work is makes total sense.

Decent pension depends on what "decent" is and how long you need to work to achieve "decent".  I would be in favor of transitioning to a 401(k) system and having MA employees join Social Security (we are only 1 of 4 states not in the system now).

But what about:

1) Post retirement medical benefits.  This is a costly benefit that we are all just beginning to understand how much it costs and could cost into the future.

2) Carryover sick days and vacation days.  I would prefer a system where you get a set number of days for your personal use (sick, vacation, whatever) and that's it.  You would be able to carry over a limited nuymber with the rest being forfeited.

I am all for employees being compensated fairly, but we have to include ALL the elements of compensation in the equation and we are not doing that now.  When you do add the value of the benefits into the equation you get pretty large numbers that too often are not recognized by the public sector employees since, its just a benefit, but those benefits have costs to taxpayers.

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by: ConsEph @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 18:19:35 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Identity by committee (5.00 / 1)

I'm not a fan of committees like this. They generate more words than value with results the like of Wenlock and Mandeville.

I prefer the KISS method. Four themes that are (1) concrete enough to be understood on their own, (2) broad enough that people can find their own personal place in it, and (3) flexible so they can be applied equally well on municipal issues or national ones:

Prosperity
We support policies that enable individuals, families and businesses to achieve their American dream.

Security
We support financial practices that protect us from inevitable economic downturns. The most valuable public services will not be used as political pawns to raise taxes

Liberty
We support policies that enable individual freedom. This theme covers social issues.

Transparency
We promote openness in all government action.

The longer you spend on visioning, the less you have for action. Identity will be formed by action, not words. Here are some things the MA GOP can do:

Run financial oversight workshops for municipal boards
It's a safe bet that the majority of municipal boards responsible for the oversight of millions of dollars have little to no skill in financial oversight. Instead, they rely on trust. Teach them how to have both.

Run policy workshops
Help local boards understand state legislation and how they can craft local policy that either extends or limits the impact of state law at the local level.

Quote the Pioneer Institute and CLTG
We don't have unions and quasi-government agencies like the D's. But we can work with with other groups.

Work on a "big" project
I suggest ending public pensions. Ending public pensions is better for government budgets, taxpayers, and... it's better for public workers. Most public workers make a low salary but than "catch up" within 5 years of retirement. There's a case to be made for providing better wages as part of overall compensation reform.

Well, gotta run to work. Bye for now!

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by: dweir @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 11:33:27 AM UTC

Big Project (0.00 / 0)

I personally would not push for the end to public pensions as a starting point.

Here's why.  Doing so immediately creates an us vs. them approach and there is no way to win that argument.  Add to this the fact that there are thousands of people who worked hard for those pensions and depend on them for their retirement.

Instead, I would focus on a BIG project that looks at pensions and other retirement benefits and how municipalities and the state plan on funding them.

Here's why:

1) The unfunded liabilities for pensions and other post employment benefits are big numbers.  Big numbers that scare people when they hear what they are.  However, not many people hear what they are because they don't ask, through no fault of their own.  There is very little if any discussion about this at the municipal elected governance level.

2) Accounting rules are changing.  Yes accounting so can be confusing, but the long and short of it is Municipalities and the State have been using an expected rate of investment return to discount their pension liabilities.  These rates run 7.5% to 8.25%.  (Leaving aside the overly aggressive nature of those assumptions.)  However, GASB (accounting body that makes rules for government accounting) has proposed a new rule that would require the discount rate to be something like the private sector, or the municipality's cost of borrowing.  Since this is tax free and you cannot borrow tax free to fund a pension then you would have to tax effect it.  Regardless you would be looking at a rate in the 4 to 6% range.  The general rule of thumb is that for each 1% drop in the discount rate your liability goes up by 10 - 20%.  So we are talking potentially enormous changes when ths goes into effect in 2013.

3) It will take education of elected officials, municipal leaders and activists which will help to build a cadre of experts focused on a problem and finding a solution.

4) You do not have to say eliminate the benefits, just focus on how will you pay for them and what is the best solution for all of us.

I think this can work.  Yes, technical and wonkish, but focuses on fiscal responsibility, shared goals and how to we make government more efficient with the dollars it has available to serve us all.

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by: ConsEph @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 12:54:15 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I Agree With The Points That You Propose, Diane (0.00 / 0)

But the themes would have more resonance if they were grounded in the foundation of a practical ideology.

The Democrats can also cite Prosperity, Security, Liberty, & Transparency as themes which emanate from their own practical ideology. For example, Democrats will argue that "Prosperity" (as interpreted by them) MUST be shared by everybody through risk socialization as defined by & promulgated through government regulatory agencies in order to avoid any & all boom & bust cycles. Obviously Republicans (especially libertarians) would recoil at such an interpretation but said interpretation may find favor with social conservatives (which is why some businesses vigorously support the Democrats).

The practical ideology of the Democrats is broad enough to appeal to people who find the visioning aspect of said ideology extremely appealing. So, too, must the practical ideology of the GOP.  

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 14:05:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Good party platform (0.00 / 0)

I think I recall that Jennifer's first proposed platform looked a lot like this.  What happened to that excellent document?

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 22:46:51 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Here's a good start (5.00 / 1)

There were great candidates that lost on Tuesday all across Massachusetts. Chris Dent (Nahant) and Brett Schetzsle (Beverly) are two that come to mind. The party risks losing these young and capable Republicans if it fails to reach out to folks like Dent and Schetzsle quickly. The first questions that the party needs to ask is what did the party do correctly and incorrectly during their most recent campaign. The party may not like the answer. The second issue is how do you keep these people involved. Losing talented and young people that stuck their neck out would be a sin. Both of these two gentlemen today are amongst the unemployed today, in part due to the fact that they needed to campaign full time in order to make their case to the voters.  

"Never, never, never give up" - Winston Churchill

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by: David Whelan @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 12:40:40 PM UTC

Great Observation, David (0.00 / 0)

The Democrats have an elaborate system established (jobs in government, not-for-profit organizations, NGOs, et al) for promising candidates who fail to get elected in their first outing. Republicans on the national level have a smaller version of this but not on the state level. It's something to consider as part of developing a modern farm team for the state GOP's future prospects.

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 14:50:50 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You are so right David (0.00 / 0)

This is so important I have to say something, but I don't know what to say. If the Republican Party had money, it would be great to hire them to implement the ideas we've all read here today.  

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 21:45:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wait, I just thought of something! (0.00 / 0)

I think there was a time when young Republicans were encouraged to run and if they ran a good campaign and were unsuccessful their first time out, they were hired by Republican governors to hold them over til the next time. Of course this requires having a Republican governor, which is where the patronage (in good sense of word) comes from. So first you put lots of State Committee resources into getting Republican governor, then you hire Brett and Chris (if they want to go there) til they run again.
Who could object to this plan?

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by: Barbara Anderson @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 22:44:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Chris and Brett (0.00 / 0)

Both would have been great additions to a GOP administration. The biggest problem at the local level is the lack of infrastructure in most communities. In the Dent race there was infrastructure in Swampscott and Mhead, but none elsewhere. Lynn has NO city committee to speak of. Without help in McGee's backyard, Dent's race was unwinable. Looking on the bright side, Dent is part of the future of the party if he wants to be. He's 29 and very smart. The state GOP would be real smart if they reach out real fast to Brett S and Chris D.  

"Never, never, never give up" - Winston Churchill

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by: David Whelan @ Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 13:13:57 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

MASS GOP (0.00 / 0)

It's all about leadership and vision. Jennifer and her team should go the way of Nancy Pelosi. Never mind with all of the
tactical blather, new people at the top are needed. People who have run and won elections. People who can organize, energize and and revitalize.

Change now, or forever live in the shadows.

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by: Tide1 @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 12:43:19 PM UTC

I'm Hip With That, Tide1 (0.00 / 0)

But the GOP housecleaning should also be extended to the failed status quo "leadership" of the minority party on Beacon Hill.

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 14:55:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

How many of you are on your Republican Town Committees? (5.00 / 3)

I'm on mine and I don't think much of it. The organization is sloppy and there doesn't seem to be very much communication with other town committees or the state GOP.

We need to expand these organizations ASAP. Ask every member to bring another 1 or 2 members. Have some substantive commentary and stop the complaining. Help develop a statewide platform for the elected GOP officials to push. Have an energy program to help average citizens (no income tiers) buy solar/geothermal, push 0% Energy loans for more efficient boilers and air conditioners... create a transportation plan which really will help ease traffic mess we see on 93, 128, 495 and the Pike, suggest a program to "commit" UMASS Med School grads who enjoy the cheapest Med school education in the US to work in new regional Medical Centers around the state to ease Emergency Room traffic and provide low cost solutions for routine visits... Develop programs which fill needs and create jobs, double wins!

We can't give up after all the work we just did.

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by: JohnD @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 13:41:04 PM UTC

Meeting WIth Our Chair (0.00 / 0)

This morning to go over a number of issues and observations and discuss how we get people together to focus on:

1) Recruitment - finding new members who are already registered R's or Independents who lean R and may be ready to make the switch

2) Retention - checking in with all the existing members and making sure that they are okay and onboard to help move forward.

3) Candidate recruitment for next fall's elections.  Need candidates willing to devote time (and resources) to a run next fall.  Also to come up with firm commitments for committee members to help support their efforts.

4) Fund raising - its fall.  How can we get to a higher level of contributions from committee members.  (Personally I have an issue with any committee member who will not even make a modest contribution as not doing so sends a very strong contradictory message, and I am talk something like $10.)

5) Social Media - have a website that is doing okay with a new web master but need facebook too.

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by: ConsEph @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 14:28:57 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Organization tip (0.00 / 0)

The single best recruiting tool for RTC's is the list of those who took ballots in the Dec. 2009 GOP primary.  ANYONE taking a ballot to make sure Scott Brown beat Jack Robinson is a true believer!  Best, many unenrolleds voted and many of them have since registered and may want to join.

Mashpee used this list and held a potluck supper inviting them all.  In 6 weeks, they had gone from three people to over twenty, and have been functioning ever since.  They also invited the unenrolleds - some join, some don't, but all work.

You can get the list from your local town hall.

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 16:46:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

For those on Voter Vault (0.00 / 0)

That is Special election B Repbulican Ballot

Full Disclosure


http://www.redmassgroup.com/pr...

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by: Rob "EaBo Clipper" Eno @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 16:48:45 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Peter (0.00 / 0)

Thank you.

Will head on over to Town Hall tomorrow morning (they're closed at noon tomorrow) and get the list.

Also, thinking of going through OCPF for contributors to R campaigns and cross checking against voter registration to identify other potential members.

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by: ConsEph @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 17:32:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

All good things CE, (5.00 / 1)

but we still need a message. A coherent pragmatic message that will resonate with voters. We've taken a lot of heat the last two years for being the party of NO, and to a degree we are. If we want to remove this moniker then we have to say NO and then follow up with exactly what we are going to do instead. If we want to say we spend too much then don't hem and haw when they ask where we need to cut. The good news is we can find those things but you need to get down into the weeds. Remember, we can't simply talk about protecting union jobs to get 300,000 zombie votes, we need solutions for the rest of the workers in the state.

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by: JohnD @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 19:37:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Amen To That, JohnD (0.00 / 0)

The fact that a number of communities have NO GOP TOWN OR WARD COMMITTEES is an indictment against the state committee people who have allowed such a situation to continue unabated. Say what you will about Brock Cordiero but the dude KICKS ASS when it comes to working his district. If we had more state committee people like him, all cities & towns would have a Republican presence that would revitalize our party & make it competitive again in politics. Is it possible to get a grant somewhere which allows us to clone Brock? If not, then let's focus on an outreach program to attract more people like him!

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by: The Angelic One @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 15:05:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Big City, Small State Strategy (0.00 / 0)

If there existed a State called New Dallas, it would be a blue state, even though Texas is obviously red.

The problem in Massachusetts, is that Boston, like most if not every large city in the US, votes Dem.  

Unlike every state, Massachusetts is very small, and thus, as goes Boston, so goes Mass.  Over 50% of the state's population is in Boston, not unlike NYC's 43% of the total NY population.  

Contrast to say very Blue Chicago which has only 22% of Illinois' heads.  The result is that Illinois is a swing state with Chicago pulling it left and the rest of the state offsetting the effect.

Figure out a Big City strategy, and watch the Dem seats fall.

Elizabeth Warren: a bankruptcy professor, bankrupt of ideas

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by: gary @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 19:05:52 PM UTC

How Big is Boston? (0.00 / 0)

Gary,

Agree on the need to have a strategy in the "big" cities, but Boston is nowhere near 50% of MA population.  MA is somewhere in the 6.5 million neighborhood while boston is not 3.25 million, closer to 650,000 give or take, so about 10%.

But start adding in Cambridge, Lowell, Springfield, Worcester, Fall River, New Bedford, etc. and you have the City v. Suburb dichotomy.

Need to focus on both with different strategies as you suggest.

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by: ConsEph @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 19:32:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Boston has lost 1/2 of it's population since the 1940's (0.00 / 0)

It was closer to 1M than.  

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by: roarkarchitect @ Sat Nov 06, 2010 at 20:12:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

windage and elevation (0.00 / 0)

this is good news.that will ensure one less congressman in the delegation.less congressman means less federal dollars.less federal dollars means the local population pay more taxes.the more the population is taxed the better chance to have more of the population re-locate to a red state.i don't see people moving from boston to providence.

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by: right wing @ Sat Nov 06, 2010 at 20:51:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I tried (0.00 / 0)

to get the state party to do a branding campaign just after the elections in 08. All to no avail. Here's some copy for an ad I wrote about 2 years ago.

It's time to end the one-party domination of state government. For over 50 years the Democrat party has controlled the legislature in Massachusetts.

What has that gotten us? A "temporary" increase in the state income tax that's over 20 years old. Spending that's out of control. Massive local aid cuts on top of increased taxes. Corruption at all levels. A permanent governing class. Patronage hires and back room deals saddling the taxpayers with additional burdens.

It's time for Real, Meaningful Reform. It's time to bring some fiscal responsibility, smaller government and a lower tax burden to Massachusetts. It's time to unleash the power of private and individual enterprise to foster economic growth. It's time to Bring Balance to Beacon Hill. It's time to vote Republican.

To learn more about our plan for moving Massachusetts forward the right way, please visit www.massgop.com.

G.O.P. Growth. Opportunity. Prosperity. For all Americans.

Karl (TLC)Weld

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by: TLCWeld @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 20:42:03 PM UTC

See here (0.00 / 0)

http://www.facebook.com/home.p...

G.O.P. Growth. Opportunity. Prosperity. For all Americans.

Karl (TLC)Weld

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by: TLCWeld @ Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 20:44:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

spring bars (0.00 / 0)

spring bars

spring bars

spring bars  

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by: pandawill @ Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 10:55:19 AM UTC