John Walsh Up to His Old 2010 Failed Dirty Tricks

What about Warren? (0.00 / 0)

Isn't she partly responsible for Walsh's outrageous comments?

"Never, never, never give up" - Winston Churchill

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by: David Whelan @ Mon Feb 20, 2012 at 22:16:47 PM UTC

Why would she be responsible for something someone else said in 2010? (5.00 / 1)

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"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

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by: Patrick @ Mon Feb 20, 2012 at 22:43:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You explain yourself how he is harming women. (0.00 / 0)

Is Scott Brown looking to raise the cost of already low-cost birth control?

Well, yes.  Isn't he?  What would normally be paid by insurance must now be paid out of pocket if the employee works for an organization that disagrees with the use of birth control.

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"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

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by: Patrick @ Mon Feb 20, 2012 at 22:31:18 PM UTC

No (5.00 / 1)

Birth Control without co-pay costs $9.00 per month at lots of pharmacies.


Full Disclosure


http://www.redmassgroup.com/pr...

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by: Rob "EaBo Clipper" Eno @ Mon Feb 20, 2012 at 22:34:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not exactly (4.00 / 1)

It really depends on the kind of birth control you take. Different birth control causes different reactions to different women. There isn't a pharmacy in America where my wife's birth control costs $9.

This argument shows a real misunderstanding of the issue.  

...And now you're mad at me.
http://thegreatoutthere.blogsp...

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by: MattTheLefty @ Mon Feb 20, 2012 at 22:54:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

What is the birth control and what does it cost? (0.00 / 0)

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by: V @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 12:36:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I don't understand. (5.00 / 1)

Pretend you are talking with someone who has an insurance plan that covers nothing.  All this talk about things being covered is mystifying to me.  Humor me and explain.

Birth control without insurance is $9 if you go pharmacy shopping.

Birth control with insurance is how much?  

If it's nothing or less than $9 then I don't get how you can say "No" to it costing a person more.  If we were discussing taxes here, no one would accept the argument that "well, it's only a $9 a month tax.  Small amount of money.  Just skip a few lattes."

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"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

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by: Patrick @ Mon Feb 20, 2012 at 22:58:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Do we get free lattes? (0.00 / 0)

How about we prohibit the sale and use of contraceptives in all 50 states, unless we get free lattes and bagels? Come on, we got them over a barrel now, they will do anything for free birth control. Let's at least try to get something good out of it. How about a twenty dollar a month subsidy for whatever we want to spend it on?

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by: John Howard @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 00:18:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

unconditionally providing birth control through insurance... (0.00 / 0)

...will do the most toward making birth control extremely expensive.

If an insurance company is bound by law to provide it, then the pharma companies will simply charge a thousand dollars a dose for it.

Then the Health care tax will go through the roof.

Just because insurance pays for it, doesn't make it free.

"Don't let me get away with it. Check me out. Don't be the sucker generation." -Ronald Reagan

www.inBrockton.com

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by: BrocktonDave @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 11:49:19 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Outstanding point Dave! (0.00 / 0)

One new mandate that has stirred controversy restricts insurance companies from requiring patients to use less expensive alternative brand name or over-the-counter drugs for pain treatment before turning to a more costly brand name drug prescribed by a physician.

Stover said insurance companies often use what's called step therapy, or requiring the use and failure of one drug before another drug may be covered, because some medications are expensive but don't have a better clinical track record then the less expensive generic brand.

The new law essentially bans that practice. Stover said that will drive up health care costs, without guaranteeing improved clinical outcomes. "The bill was done at the behest of the pharmaceutical industry wrapped in the sheep's clothing of patient care advocacy," Stover said. "It doesn't make sense economically or medically."

http://www.hartfordbusiness.co...

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by: V @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 12:42:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

It's hard to blame Walsh for 2010. (0.00 / 1)

Coakley was a horrific candidate.

...And now you're mad at me.
http://thegreatoutthere.blogsp...

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by: MattTheLefty @ Mon Feb 20, 2012 at 22:53:36 PM UTC

We are concered about whether or not (0.00 / 0)

a small number of women who work for Catholic Organizations get birth control coverage under their health insurance, and if they have a right to demand certain compensations against their employer's religious objections.

First of all, where are these women who are crying out for birth control? Does anyone have a link to groups of Catholic employees who are demanding birth control? I would be interesting in reading about their plight and efforts thus far. Do they even exist? What are they doing right now with their health insurance plans that currently aren't covering birth control?

Second of all, isn't this a "small potatoes" thing to worry about when millions of people don't have a job let alone health insurance, let alone health insurance that covers birth control? Seems like the Obama Administration is just trying to take our eye off the bigger issue, which is, if we had a stronger economy with less inflation, maybe individuals could have a choice of jobs and be able to choose the one that covers their needs in health insurance, or had enough disposable income to supplement their health insurance. But alas, we will waste political attention with this side show, not to say that the involved parties don't have serious concerns, but how many people does this actually effect?

(R)- Outside 495

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by: MerrimackMan @ Mon Feb 20, 2012 at 23:49:40 PM UTC

I don't think it is a small number of women. (0.00 / 0)

It doesn't merely effect religious institutions but all religiously affiliated organizations as well.  Add up all the Catholic hospitals, Catholic colleges and universities, and whatever else.  That would seem to be to be a large enough number as to not be considered small.

Where are they? In plane sight.  The Catholic Church's beliefs about contraception are not widely held amongst the faithful.  What's funny is that in a lot of the commentary on this issue, it revolves around the case of non-Catholic employees.  They wouldn't even be the main beneficiary.  Catholic women will be taking advantage of this.  The Church's teachings on contraception simply are not practiced.

I don't buy the argument that we can't do X without first dealing with bigger issue Y.  Firstly, Congress can multitask.  Secondly, there is always a bigger issue Y which can be used to dismiss issue X.  It's a convenient dodge.

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"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

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by: Patrick @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 02:32:55 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Disappointing (0.00 / 0)

You didn't link me to any group of employees seeking these benefits, I was genuinely interested in reading about any such movement.

Indeed, you are correct. Multiple issues could conceivably be handled by Congress at any time. I would argue that recently they have not been quite as successful in that regard. Thankfully, they handed over lots of policy-making power to the executive branch in the health care field, and thus President Obama could help them multi-task and get this really pressing issue accomplished. After all, birth control has only been around for forty years.

(R)- Outside 495

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by: MerrimackMan @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 02:51:16 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

The group of employees is called "women." (0.00 / 0)

Like I was saying, let's end this pleasant fiction.  Time to remove the fig leaf.  Catholic women do not practice the Church's teachings on this issue.  Is anyone disputing this?

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"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

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by: Patrick @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 03:00:35 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I didn't say that Catholic women did (0.00 / 0)

But the Church as an institution clearly has a legal right to their belief (unlike say if they were mandating Aztec like human capture and sacrifice)
Just because their followers choose to follow certain parts of their teachings, doesn't mean we can shove something down their throats through the law.

(R)- Outside 495

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by: MerrimackMan @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 03:15:01 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

If you don't like your employer's benefits... (0.00 / 0)

It may be time for a new job. We have a high family deductible. It's expensive, but my covered costs in the past 9 months exceed 100k. Not so bad given the alternative.  

"Never, never, never give up" - Winston Churchill

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by: David Whelan @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 11:59:27 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I thought you were a Libertarian. (5.00 / 2)

Odd position for you to be staking out, getting into the middle of the relationship between a church and its "members."

"The Catholic Church's beliefs about contraception are not widely held amongst the faithful."

It's not the Church's "beliefs." It's their doctrine. Law, in other words. The fact that thousands of "members" violate the Church's doctrine does not give the government the right to interfere with it.  

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by: smallfish @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 19:57:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I always thought Patrick was a smart ass (0.00 / 0)

Patrick is a Libertarian smallfish.  He even likes Ron Paul.  I have detailed files about Patrick's love affair with the Libertarians.  Let me know if you want my research.

R4

"Paula Jones was and is trailer-trash" -SomervilleTom

http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/...

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 20:30:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Question. (5.00 / 1)

Is birth control a right? Or do you have to pay for it, in which case it becomes a privilege?

(R)- Outside 495

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by: MerrimackMan @ Mon Feb 20, 2012 at 23:55:44 PM UTC

Other question. (5.00 / 1)

Is birth control an intrinsic evil?

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"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

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by: Patrick @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 00:01:26 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Brain Freeze Defined! (0.00 / 0)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...

"Never, never, never give up" - Winston Churchill

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by: David Whelan @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 00:59:21 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Catholic Church Thinks So (5.00 / 1)

That's their right.

But I guess its okay to make people do things they consider intrinsically evil...

(R)- Outside 495

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by: MerrimackMan @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 01:13:09 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Good Point MM (0.00 / 0)

It's also the Catholic Church's right to not offer any health insurance. Makes you wonder about the greater good.  

"Never, never, never give up" - Winston Churchill

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by: David Whelan @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 01:20:11 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes, but are they wrong? (5.00 / 1)

Are you able to judge their belief?

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"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

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by: Patrick @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 01:26:23 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Damn it if you didn't do it again (0.00 / 0)

You gave me "brain freeze" a second time. Stop it.

"Never, never, never give up" - Winston Churchill

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by: David Whelan @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 01:32:30 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'll try but I'm not much of a lawyer (5.00 / 1)

We can judge their beliefs. Ultimately, religions are subordinate to criminal law, but to interfere in religious conduct, the law must have a compelling interest. The interest at hand is that of employer insured birth control services. I don't think that's much of a compelling interest, considering city ordinances that banned ritual animal sacrifice have been thrown out for violating the establishment clause.
After all,
1) You don't have to work for Catholic Organizations
2) You can access birth control outside of insurance providers
3) You do not have a right to birth control


(R)- Outside 495

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by: MerrimackMan @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 03:06:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

He's got the right strategy (0.00 / 0)

Chairman Walsh is going to try to rally the base, while Professor Warren is going after the women's and unenrolled vote while having nothing to do with this kind of rhetoric. Walsh wants to drive turnout up among Democrats and this stuff is the way to do it. He will seek any opportunity to say that Senator Brown doesn't represent liberal Massachusetts values.

You might say, "But shouldn't Walsh be forced to stick with comments that appeal to the middle?" No way. He doesn't have to. If he improves on his successful turnout strategy of 2010, and gets another half-million voters because of the presidential election, the Republican party will be vaporized no matter how good Senator Brown's approval ratings are.

What can we do? Well, Walsh is figuring strength from the top of the ticket (President Obama and Professor Warren) will bring lots of voters who will vote Democrat down-ballot and crush us Republicans. I figure our best chance is to work hard on name recognition for state-level offices to push up the ticket to connect to Brown. (People are much more likely to vote party if they don't know anything about the names on the ballot. I don't think Senator Brown will have "coattails" for state-level candidates that lots of voters have never heard of. The party is too weak for that to work. But I do think Brown will have coattails for Republicans who have made a name for themselves, such as men like Dan Winslow.)

Boosting name recognition among state-level candidates will require that RTCs cooperate across legislative districts and that effective voter targeting happens. This will require new infrastructure that is, of course, not there now.

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by: edfactor @ Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 01:24:08 AM UTC