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A Great Day for the Massachusetts Republican Party

by: Rob "EaBo Clipper" Eno

Sat Apr 28, 2012 at 18:05:26 PM EDT


"We've got to be a party that's about addition and not subtraction," Pawlenty said Thursday.  "In places like Minnesota, the Northeast, the West Coast, the Mountain States, the Upper Midwest, the Great Lakes, we don't have a margin of error where we can afford to shrink the party. We want to be growing the party if we're going to win elections and also have the opportunity to govern and make a difference for the country. So this is about expanding market share, not contracting it."

Today well over 2000 Republicans chose delegates to the Republican National Convention.  In a long standing process whereby Republicans, usually in much smaller numbers, assemble to send people to the National convention.

This year a local son was going to be the recipient of those delegates, so expectations were high.  Couple that with a 3 plus year effort by the libertarian wing of the Republican Party to get delegates to the convention to affect the party platform, and the makings were there for a historic series of events.  Today did not disappoint.  

What happened today at nine caucus sites, is a positive step for our party.  A party apparatus that acts as a rubber stamp for its establishment leaders will not last in the long term.  This is one of the reasons for our less than 12% enrollment across this state.  Beginning with the State Committee races a new generation of leadership has stood up and said, look at us.  Their energy is essential to the continued growth of our party.

As it stands now the self styled Ronald Reagan Unity Slate, the libertarian wing, won 17 of the 27 delegates selected at the nine caucuses today.  By party rules 11 more delegates will be selected by the Republican State Committee.  Many of these delegates are long standing liberty minded activists, some are new to this process.  All 27 have pledged their support to our next president Mitt Romney.

The establishment is understandable shaken by the turn of these events.  With big names like Kerry Healey, and Brad Jones not winning in their home district caucuses.  They shouldn't be.  They should embrace the energy of these "new" people and not turn them away.  This wing of the party, if treated with respect, forms a dedicated grassroots army.  Their leader is working to ensure they stay involved.  It is imperative that the establishment leadership finds a way to work with that bridge builder.

Rob "EaBo Clipper" Eno :: A Great Day for the Massachusetts Republican Party
Who is that bridge-builder? Who is that leader? His name is Brad Wyatt, a school committeeman from Boylston.  He is a stalwart activist, and a giver of time and resources.  His building, "The Osgood Bradley Building" has become a center for conservative activism in Central Massachusetts.  The OBB has been the home of Massachusetts Victory efforts for two cycles now.  

Brad is the first person to stress that the home of liberty minded people is the Republican Party.  It is by his efforts that hundreds, if not thousands, of people changed their party registration over the past twelve years.  He understands that after primary fights, it is time to come together to defeat the enemies of smaller government.  

Brad Wyatt, today, moved from out of the shadows and claimed his place as a leader of the Party.  He represents a new and growing faction, of liberty minded, small government conservatives.  Unlike Carla Howell, Brad is an affable gentle face to the liberty movement, who is dedicated to winning within the framework of a two party system.

The establishment has a choice to make in the coming weeks, be  excited about the growth in our party, or circle the wagons.  The appropriate choice is to heed Tim Pawlenty's words, and grow the base of this party by embracing, publicly in word and deed the liberty wing of the party.

Onward to November and Victory.

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Nice touch by the leader of tha pack at the 3rd Congressional (5.00 / 2)
With a Ron Paul shirt, stood defiantly with his BACK to the flag during the Pledge of Allegiance.

Ron Paul shirt guy (5.00 / 1)
That guy was an idiot and disrespectful.  

[ Parent ]
Not expecting anything else from these guys (5.00 / 1)


"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez


[ Parent ]
Corrected numbers (5.00 / 1)
...of the 27 delegates selected at the nine caucuses today.  By party rules 20 more delegates will be selected by the Republican State Committee

Not exactly.  27 delegates (and their alternates) were elected today (and congratulations to all of those who won!)  However, only 11 more delegates -- at-large delegates as opposed to today's Congressional delegates -- will be elected by the State Committee.

At our June 12 meeting there will be those 11 delegates and alternates up for grabs and that will bring us up to a total of 41 total delegates.

Here is the math: 27 + 11 + 3 = 41

The 3 are the ex-officio State Party Chair & the National Committee Man & Woman.  There are no alternates for these three.

The relevant section is 1.3 of the Rules, which state:

Pursuant to the Rules of the Republican Party, adopted by the 2008 Republican National Convention in Minneapolis, Minnesota, Massachusetts is entitled to 41 delegates and 38 alternate delegates distributed based upon the following formula: a) eleven (11) delegates and eleven (11) alternate delegates at large; b) three (3) district delegates and three (3) alternate district delegates for each Massachusetts Congressman in the U.S. House of Representatives based upon districts existing after the 2010 reapportionment; c) three (3) automatic delegates for the State Chair, National Committeeman and National Committeewoman (Note: there are no alternates for these three delegates).
(As per RNC rule 13.6 Massachusetts is awarded an additional one (1) at large delegate and one at large alternate delegate for having a Republican U.S. Senator.

http://www.massgop.com/wp-cont...

Ultimately, there are 41 delegates & 38 alternates all going from Massachusetts to Tampa, Florida.

Whether you were the "Romney slate", Liberty, Ronald Reagan, Ron Paul or the Santa Claus and Tooth Fairy slate... we're all Massachusetts Republicans, we're all pledged to Mitt Romney (officially per the Rules or in our hearts & minds...certainly by 72% of the GOP primary voters) and we all need to work together over the coming months to elect Romney, re-elect Scott Brown, and elect our legislative candidates.  Heck, it still may be time to elect our municpal candidates if we work together!  


Rule 1.4 (5.00 / 1)
I meant to cite this as well:

Three (3) district delegates and three (3) alternate delegates shall be elected from each of the current congressional district, then eleven (11) delegates and eleven (11) alternate delegates shall be elected at large. (27+11=38)


[ Parent ]
It is worth noting that... (5.00 / 2)
...4 years ago, the SC slate fell apart as the SC members refused to vote for it at the meeting, and began to nominate from the floor.

And after THAT experience, they were convinced that this successful strategy would work state-wide!

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican


[ Parent ]
Question (5.00 / 1)
Is it possible to abstain in the first round of voting?  I can't find anything in the rules against this.
If the Liberty group did take enough delegates through out the country, they could cause a 2nd round of voting; at which point they are able to vote for anyone they want.

You have to respect this group of dedicated people.  Imagine if the state committee involved them how much more effective our party could be.

Brock - Can you post a link to the official rules your quoting?

Still impressed with what happened today.


Link & No (5.00 / 1)
I posted the link in the post above but here it is again:

http://www.massgop.com/wp-cont...

As far as abstaining, I don't think it is possible.  I'm not a final authority in this particular area but everyone is pledged to Romney, whether or not a delegate wants to cause a public stink and storm out or such, the delegate to Romney is already pledged... whether the person likes it or not.

The delegate selection process merely puts a particular body in the delegate position, but the position has been counted for & given already to Romney per party rules.

For example, rule 4.5:

A candidate for delegate or alternate delegate need not be present to be eligible for election, but must have expressed in writing to the caucus chair his or her willingness to serve if elected and certified and only those candidates for delegate or alternate delegate pledged to a presidential candidate entitled to a delegate or alternate delegate from that district may be nominated.

In the same rule it further says:

Each nominee for election as a pledged Congressional District delegate or alternate delegate shall express a commitment to a qualifying Presidential candidate and agree to be bound to vote for that candidate on the first such roll-call unless released by such candidate, as required by law. c. 53 § 70(I)

To touch upon your comment about the State Committee involving people... everyone is welcome to be involved, activism is open to everyone & everyone.  Any town/ward committee can have up to 35 formal members & unlimited associate members.  There is no limitation on involvment by anyone or any wing of the party.  The MassGOP is simply a mirror reflection of the sum total of those willing & choosing themselves to be involved.

In my own district caucus, I know of two possible delegates from a non-Romney slate who are not neccessarily active in their local town committees.  I hope they will be & very soon.  I respect and am impressed by anyone willing to put their name into nomination, give their speech, stand for election.  Of course, its even more so impressive when it's successful.  Bravo and congrats to all who did win tonight & all those who had a burning passion enough to try.


[ Parent ]
There seem to be a few seperate things here. (5.00 / 1)
Being legally bound to vote someone versus the actual vote versus the penalty for not voting the way one is bound.

Everyone is bound and has promised to vote for Romney.  However, when the actual voting occurs they can do whatever.  The only issue is that they break the law and face whatever the penalty is for breaking the law.  This does not negate the vote that they took.

Am I wrong? It appears to me that not only can they abstain, they can outright vote for Ron Paul (or Santorum or Newt)!

---
"Men invent new ideals because they dare not attempt old ideals. They look forward with enthusiasm, because they are afraid to look back." - G.K. Chesterton
http://red.ma.altercate.net


[ Parent ]
Perhaps (5.00 / 1)
You may be right, I don't claim to be a Republican National Committee expert.  Heck, I've never been to one much less an infalliable reference.

However, I'm under the impression - and I'll stand to be corrected - that on the first round, you could scream out Mickey Mouse or walk out of the venue and it still gets counted for Romney.

Second round, it's a free for all.  


[ Parent ]
Yepp ... (0.00 / 0)
That's my understanding too. Their votes have already been counted. All that's left is for them to actually cast them and, of course, the big show.

[ Parent ]
Yes, that is how it works form my understanding. (5.00 / 1)
The issue is where the delegates are proportioned and are not committed. Will it cause a stink ? Doubt it very much. But, a clear message has been sent. A shot across the bow so to speak that the state party is in trouble. It has no control and was horrible in it's organizational aspects for these caucuses.  

[ Parent ]
Not so fast (5.00 / 1)
Well, I wouldn't count my delegates until they hatch Rob. Congratulations to those that turned out and used the opportunity to push their agenda. I agree with your assessment that this is a great day for the party, even if I don't agree with the cult of Paul. Today, we saw the manifestation of what we have long complained about; piss poor organization at the local level.

If the state committee put more energy into organizing and promoting local committees, today would have never happened. At my caucus, my local state committee man and woman were not even in attendance, and only a handful of RTC Chairs showed up! The Paul people showed just what happens when you don't pay attention, and perhaps Romney's preferred slate losing all across the state will be the straw that broke the camels back into knocking sense into them about grassroots importance.

Put it this way. About 1,000 Ron Paul people who use websites to organize, just put the screws to a million dollar state party organization. If heads don't role down on Merrimac St. after this, they never will get it.

That being said, the rules are against the Paul-bots if I read them correctly.
http://www.massgop.com/wp-cont...

5.2 "Certified delegate" shall be defined for the purposes of the Plan as having been certified as acceptable by a qualifying Presidential Candidate's state committee, or such presidential candidate's representative on the Allocation Committee, if any. If neither exists, then the delegate may be certified by the Allocation Committee. In the case of a protest or an appeal, the Allocation Committee's ratification or reversal shall be final. An elected delegate shall not be denied certification by a qualifying Presidential Candidate's state committee, or such presidential candidate's representative on the Allocation
Committee, if any, without just cause. Any such proposed denial of certification will not be effective unless upheld by a majority vote of the Allocation Committee.

And just who is the Allocation Committee made up of?

4.1 There shall be an Allocation Committee which shall consist of the following members: the Republican State Chair, Vice Chair, Treasurer, Secretary, the Republican National Committeeman, the Republican National Committeewoman, one representative for each Republican presidential candidate whose name appeared on the Primary ballot pursuant to paragraph 3.3 of these rules and who received greater that 15% of the "final net Republican vote" in the Republican Primary and who is an enrolled Republican registered in Massachusetts, and six Regular Members of the State Committee who shall be selected by the Republican State Chair at its organizational meeting following the Presidential Primary. The General Counsel or his designee shall serve as an ex officio non-voting member of the Allocation Committee.

So, Paul doesn't even have a person on the Allocation Committee that will rule on the certification of the delegates. Do you really see the above group certifying non-Romney Delegates to go to Tampa?

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez


They are pledged to Romney (4.00 / 3)
If the party apparatus pulls this, they will set the party back.

Full Disclosure


http://www.redmassgroup.com/pr...


[ Parent ]
Tell me you haven't drank the Kook aid Rob.... (5.00 / 1)
Ron Paul-bot are to Republican what the Larouches are to the Democrats.

I find it repugnant that a man who said this:
http://articles.latimes.com/19...

Although he was once an ardent supporter of President Reagan, Paul now speaks of him as a traitor leading the country into debt and conflicts around the world: "I want to totally disassociate myself from the Reagan Administration."

Is running candidates under the Reagan Liberty Slate.

For all the clamoring about beating Obama, do you think a platform pushed by the Paul-bots with planks like this:

As President, Ron Paul will support a Liberty Amendment to the Constitution to abolish the income and death taxes. Capital gains taxes, which punish you for success (and interfere with your efforts to hedge against inflation by purchasing gold and silver coins), should also be immediately repealed.

by a guy with this much legislative success:

Of the 620 bills that Paul had sponsored through December 2011, over a period of more than 22 years in Congress, only one had been signed into law - a lifetime success rate of less than 0.3%.[48] The sole measure authored by Paul that was ultimately enacted allowed for a federal customhouse to be sold to a local historic preservation society (H.R. 2121 in 2009)

Is the way to beat Obama?

Jim Jones had a small grassroots army too...Good for Paul that he has about 1 million zealots. Bad for the rest of us in the general election if he is a force at the convention. The enthusiasm is great, but if you think a platform of heroine being legalized is a great idea, we're looking at 4 more years of Obama.

Why do you think so many DEMOCRATS want to see Paul succeed?  

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez


[ Parent ]
Something doesn't seem right (5.00 / 3)
If delegates pledged to Romney actually support Ron Paul. What will the party do with them if they actually vote for Paul at the Convention? I'm not seeing the benefit of giving a huge chunk of power to a small segment of the voters (RP has still yet to win a state), if they are planning on embarrassing the presumptive nominee of the Republican Party.

It's one thing to give Libertarians a voice in the party, it's another to let them game the system with one of America's most problematic electoral methods, the caucus.  

(R)- Outside 495


[ Parent ]
Plans & Schemes (5.00 / 1)
I'm sure that the pro-Paul faction, especially after celebrating today, are planning quite a bit on how to use and wield their new found power.  Heck, I'd be that side of Machiavelli if the numbers are what they seem to be.

They also may be right, if the balloting went into a second round.

I'm not convinced, although I'll stand to be corrected, that electorally the Romney campaign is any worse off or endanger today then they were earlier this past week.

Mitt needs something like 300 more delegates to hit 1,144.  Party rules have those delegates in Mitt's back pocket in round one.  By June 5, when Mitt wins California, it should all be over mathematically, if not sooner.  

The real danger I see with the caucus is not Romney's viability but egg on his face if a sizable minority much less a majority of his home state delegates start making bad PR by going horribly off message.

I don't worry about the vote totals at the Convention on round 1.  I believe that their baked into the cake already and have not seen credible evidence to the contrary (just a lot of fear).  However, yes, the PR & messaging could be very problematic for Romney if a pro-Paul faction were to go rogue in Tampa and damn him with faint praise.

Worried, yes perhaps I am.  Fearful, no...we cannot simply wall ourselves off with some sort of MassGOP Hadrian's Wall & pretend everything we agree with is civilized and any dissent, no matter how small or large, is savagry.  Also remember, it may have taken awhile but in history, ultimately the barbarians sacked Rome and destroyed the Western Empire.  


[ Parent ]
By my count 7-6 (5.00 / 1)
Margin to remove Paul delegates, if all SC members side to not remove.

You don't think that's a coincidence do you?

At this point, I'd be MORE surprised that all those Paul-bots make Tampa than not.

MASS GOP will use whatever tools at their disposal to prevent MA being potentially embarrassed front and center at the convention.

And it won't even register a blip on the media screen since the average person only cares who the nominee is, not who votes for him.

No inside knowledge on this, just reading the tea leaves.  

And yes, it is a nuclear option that will leave the party more divided on the inside than ever.

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez


[ Parent ]
More conspiracies, no facts (5.00 / 1)
I'm glad that you don't have any inside info or otherwise I must be way out of the loop & I'm on the Delegate Allocation Committee!

As I stated previously, the committee doesn't exist to invalidate anyone.  Challenges must be individual to the delegates/alternates elected and have just cause to unseat anyone.  If any, the bias in the Rules is towards the elected person being confirmed.  The Committee exists to make sure that the individuals were elected fairly, legitimately, and legally.  It's not to enforce a candidate's preference in slates, tickets, or party goers in August.

I'm not going to prejudge anyone or anything but based upon how four years ago we denied all challenges, I'd say the individuals elected on Saturday are more likely than not to be attending the RNC, unless something egregious happens & there is some concrete evidence supporting the individual challenge.  A mass denial of Saturday's results is simply not possible.

You can't unring a bell and the reverberations of the Saturday caucuses are still being heard.  

Let us stop the conspiracy theories, on all sides, and let calm and cool heads go through the process the way the Rules designed them.

The Massachusetts Republican Party will continue on.  To the Paul faction, we're not out to get you.  To the non-Paul faction, the sky isn't falling.  I've said and I'll say it again, it's time to stop fighting each other & start fighting against the Democrat's one-party domination of the Commonwealth.


[ Parent ]
Actually, 4 years ago one challenge was upheld. (5.00 / 1)
Challenge was made over the date that the delegate registered as a Republican - town hall records indicated that it was after the deadline.  The delegate in question failed to reply to the committee or appear at the hearing, and the paper record was not challenged, so the delegate was disqualified.

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

[ Parent ]
What rules are you reading? (0.00 / 0)
First, the Allocation Committee decides, not the Delegate Committee (unless you're confusing the two).

Second, the rule in question (5.2) states that the state campaign chair for whom the delegate is pledged (i.e. Romney) can disqualify a delegate, with "just cause".

Now, there's no definition of what "just cause" is.

Is conspiring to elect individuals who do not support Governor Romney "Just cause"?

Is the widespread discussion, as Jeffercon has posted here, on the Ron Paul CAMPAIGN website of conspiring to Abstain at the Convention in an attempt to force a second vote "just cause"?

At my Caucus, the elected delegates and alternates wouldn't say who they would vote for on a second ballot.  Representing a state where Gov. Romney got 72% of the vote!  Is that "just Cause"?

That just three off the top of my head.  The definition of 'just cause' is whatever the Allocation Committee decides it is, the same committee is comprised of the above-mentioned State Campaign Chairman, the State Committee Officers, NCM, NCW, and six members of the State Committee chosen by Bob McGinn.

Gee, let's see, I wonder how McGinn, the NCM, NCW, V-Chair,  and the Romney Campaign guy will vote?  That's five out of 13 votes.  You don't think they can get 2 out of the other 8 votes to uphold tossing, say, oh, 17 delegates?  Sure they can.  That's WHY Rule 5.2 EXISTS!

In 2000, I was one of 24 delegates and alternates tossed under a similar rule by the McCain Campaign.  For the home state guy, who Kaufman, Heally, and McGinn are practically grafted on to, they would absolutely do it again.

There are a lot of great folks who where elected as "Liberty Slate" Delegates and Alternates,* but a lot of Ron Paul Supporters have the type of unblinking devotion that only Jim Jones used to engender.  If you where Romney's campaign, would you take the risk of being embarrassed at the convention?

There's going to be an (metaphorical) Axe Coming Down.

*Standard "I still love you guys, Brad and Mike" Disclaimer

Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro


[ Parent ]
PAul - the 'veto' of the state campaign chair was removed in 2008. (0.00 / 0)
Now, the entire allocation committee must vote to disqualify for just cause.  And just cause is pretty narrow.  Limited to date of registration, residency in district, etc.  Not candidate support prior to the primary.

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

[ Parent ]
As for me (5.00 / 2)
I'm one of those six Regular Members of the State Committee who were selected by the Republican State Chair.  My nomination was announced at our last State Committee Meeting.  That having been said, I'll vote to certify anyone who was legitimately and legally elected in a caucus.  Any challenges, if any, have to be in writing within 5 days pertaining to a named individual and pertain directly to the outcome.

Please reference Rule 4.5:

Within five such business days, any participant in a district caucus may file a protest at the office of the Republican State Chair contesting any caucus participant's certification of residence or party affiliation or otherwise contesting the results of a caucus. Only protests material to the outcome of the caucus and involving matters which affect the rights of the individual filing the protest shall be acted upon. Protests shall be heard and decided by the Allocation Committee, whose decision shall be final and binding, at a meeting at which the protesting and affected parties shall be given an opportunity to be heard. All protests must be in writing stating with reasonable specificity the objections raised. Any protest involving a certification must identify the individual(s) involved.

I served on the Delegate Allocation Commission four years ago and I do so again.  You'll notice that the rule you referenced makes careful notice to say "without just cause".  Indeed, you quoted it above:

An elected delegate shall not be denied certification by a qualifying Presidential Candidate's state committee, or such presidential candidate's representative on the Allocation Committee, if any, without just cause.

There's no need to stoke fears and controversy concerning the certification process.  Individual delegates would need to be challenged & evidence produced to justify any overturning of the status.  Unless some egregious smoking gun is found, no one has anything really to worry about.  If my memory serves me correctly, I don't recall the Delegate Allocation Committee overturning a single challenged delegate or alternate 4 years ago as the evidence against them was found wanting.

The Ron Paul campaign doesn't have an official representative on the Delegate Allocation Committee because of his results during the 2012 Presidential Primary in March.  As he failed to obtain the 15% threshold per the Rules, he does not get any pledged delegates thus he has no official role.  Now, any & all of those who are Ron Paul fans elected today certainly have a role and that's as delegate or alternate as the case may be.  It's the Delegate Allocation Committee's job to ensure things were done legitimately and above board, not to be in the tank for any particular candidate or "their" delegates. Elected delegates "shall not be denied" without the challengers having to jump some high hurdles.


[ Parent ]
Brock, these guys aren't going to vote for Romney (5.00 / 1)
The whole stealth campaign is built on their delegates either abstaining or saying "the hell with it" and voting for Paul anyway.

THEY SHOULD STRAIGHT UP VOTE FOR RON PAUL - EVERY ROUND.

Show me in the RNC rules where a credentialed delegate is bound to vote for anyone once they hit the floor of the RNC convention. (Hint: it's not in there. Also, the RNC is not a law enforcement agency nor a state party.)

I know some here think this is great, but imagine the Massachusetts delegation, put front and center at the RNC due to it being Romney's home state, voting on the first ballot for Ron Paul, because there are no penalties against those that break their pledge.
http://www.dailypaul.com/22071...

You need to wake up and smell what is happening. Over on the Daily Paul, posters are bubbling over that Massachusetts will vote for Ron Paul now at the convention once the provisional ballot are counted and 2-3 more delegates go to Paul. Do you think people looking to steal a convention are concerned about what they are supposed to do?

Just like the Paul-bots used the rules to try and steal the election, the state party rules are in place as a check against such a scenario happening.

Otherwise you're going to allow 25 or so Paul supporters to overturn the will of 266,000 people.

Still think that's a great idea?

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez


[ Parent ]
Perpetual State of Fear (5.00 / 1)
There is no need to live in a perpetual state of fear.  I have greater faith in the RNC & their rules -- and history of holding Conventions -- then apparently do you.  

Do I wonder and question whether or not someone (and I have no idea if any delegate falls into this category) can go from "Romney sucks, go Paul!" to "I pledge to be a Romney delegate"...sure I do.

However, we held caucuses and the "Paul-bots" as you call them seem to have won.  It is what it is and no amount of crying over spilled milk or fretting over the future can change that.  Did I personally vote for the official Romney slate, yes I did.  Do I believe that it's probably best to have a delegation that is on board and on message 100% with our next President of the United States...yes I do.  Can I change the results of the caucuses?  No, I can't.  

I can play the cards I'm dealt and those cards have grassroots activists out manuvering plenty of good, experienced, and well-respected people who wanted to win yesterday but did not.

Now, if someone is demonstrably and hardcore enough to show cause that they're a mole, plant, schill, or otherwise a wolf in sheep's clothing as a delegate then whoever posted about Rule 5.2 may have a point.  However, I'm not going to sit here paranoid wishing for what was instead of dealing with what is.  After all, conservatism at its core is dealing with matters realistically.  The "problem" here is that a good many elected aren't conservatives, but libertarians.  The Republican Party embraces both and needs both to be successful.  Enough is enough with the perpetual division.

You can't steal an election by using the rules.  You win an election that way.  I helped to write the 2012 Rules and quite honestly if those who lost are upset because the opposition won via the Rules then that's simply sour grapes.  The pro-Paul people obviously were sharp & on the ball...they had a command of their pitches and their "stuff" was good at the caucuses, to use a baseball metaphor or two.

Let's be honest here, if you're really upset that Brad Jones & Kerry Healey, for example, lost today.  I fully expect that they and some of the other official Romney people will have their names put into nomination on June 12 at our State Committee and I'm pretty darn sure that they'll get elected at that point.  The losers there may end up being people well, like me...who may have hoped to be elected as delegates at large.  Then, the ultimate losers in this mathematical equation end up well, being me thanks to today's results.

Do I worry about the lack of a cohesive message and delegation unity...absolutely.  Can much be done of it at this point, well on the face of things...apparently not.  Deal with it, we all must.  Perhaps the pro-Paul grassroots activists are here to stay whether or not it's liked by you or others.


[ Parent ]
Sample Paul Blog post from yesterday about delegates from MA (5.00 / 1)
Vote up!
+3
Vote down!
Screw the convention rules
Submitted by conalmc on Sun, 04/29/2012 - 09:02. Permalink

Honestly I feel like all the RP delegates that go to the convention should say screw their rules. Their own rules haven't mattered to the GOP during this process so far, so to hell with them. All RP delegates should vote RP no matter what...RP delegates are going to out number any others. Not to mention there are going to be tens of thousands of people outside the convention (myself included) screaming president paul. If they deny us, that will be the perfect setup for a 3rd party run. Imagine the impact if Romney wins, yet gets boo'd off the stage. President Paul chants will drown out everything else. New casters won't be able to ignore us. Perfect setup for 3rd party run.



"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez


[ Parent ]
More Paul Posts (5.00 / 1)
MA delegate sweep
Hey
Submitted by Conservative Warrior on Sun, 04/29/2012 - 09:36.  We couldnt give a Sh$t less whether Its Obama or Romney, WE DONT CARE as we know there is no difference and all. This trumped up "anybody but Obama" garbage is designed to get the Sheep ( that would be folks like you) to fall in line and vote for another Obama Clone Puppet. Go spread your disease somewhere else, REAL Patriots are tired of hearing your RINO BS...get lost....

Can you please tell me the
Submitted by InvisibleHand on Sun, 04/29/2012 - 09:33.

Can you please tell me the substantive differences between Romney and Obama?

There are none...

If you believe that Romney is going to be any different you are sadly mistaken and a bit naive.

If I believed the republican leadership as it stands now would hold true to the party platform, then I would agree with your logic. However, that is also far from the case, as they have proven time and time again.

We are in the slow process of changing the Party back to its original roots and integrity. We are infiltrating from the grass roots. This is not just about the nomination and the presidency, this is a much bigger fight.

Delegates
Submitted by Steeped'nTyranny on Sun, 04/29/2012 - 09:15. Permalink

can abstain on the first round, they are bound to mitt but can refuse to vote...legally. After that they can vote their conscience and that's when the mitt hits the fan.

And my favorite summation of their thought process...

Vote up!
+2
Vote down!
In case you haven't noticed
Submitted by Kmiller on Sun, 04/29/2012 - 09:25. Permalink

No one here gives a crap about a PARTY. We are only working to get Dr Paul elected. We will not vote for Mittens no matter what if that happens to lead to 4 more years of Obomba, so be it, better than chancing 8 years of Mittens! But, we will get Ron Paul elected, so don't you worry your little self!

So Rob, you still think I'm off base about the kooks? They'll bring the whole party down, not up!

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez


[ Parent ]
On the Internets anyone can post anything from anywhere. (5.00 / 1)
Not sure what these cherry picked posts are supposed to prove.

---
"Men invent new ideals because they dare not attempt old ideals. They look forward with enthusiasm, because they are afraid to look back." - G.K. Chesterton
http://red.ma.altercate.net


[ Parent ]
For a normal candidate yes. (5.00 / 1)
But these blogs ARE the Paul campaign... Read their hope for trying to bypass rule 40.

They claim that it's the GOP establishment keeping them from winning five states.

It's their candidates views responsible for that.

Break out the tin foil!!!

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez


[ Parent ]
And you know this because... (5.00 / 1)
You happen to be keyed into the abnormal Ron Paul campaign?

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and a blog is just a blog.

---
"Men invent new ideals because they dare not attempt old ideals. They look forward with enthusiasm, because they are afraid to look back." - G.K. Chesterton
http://red.ma.altercate.net


[ Parent ]
I think you're clinging a little to hard... (0.00 / 0)
...to the phrase "Just cause".

Just cause is whatever a majority of the Allocation committee decides it to be.

Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro


[ Parent ]
Kerry Healey. (5.00 / 2)


---
"Men invent new ideals because they dare not attempt old ideals. They look forward with enthusiasm, because they are afraid to look back." - G.K. Chesterton
http://red.ma.altercate.net


Kerry Healey (5.00 / 2)
Kerry Healey is the MA National Committee Woman she will be a delegate why was she on the Congressional delegate list?

[ Parent ]
Entitlement? (5.00 / 1)


---
"Men invent new ideals because they dare not attempt old ideals. They look forward with enthusiasm, because they are afraid to look back." - G.K. Chesterton
http://red.ma.altercate.net


[ Parent ]
Patrick the party builder (5.00 / 1)
Patrick - there you go again - always there to build the party - not create division - and be positive.  What a good person you are.  

[ Parent ]
I think (5.00 / 1)
Again, this is more an educated guess than something I've researched but I believe it's a case that while Kerry Healey is our new National Committeewoman that for business purposes of the GOP Convention that since Jody Dow was our State Committeewoman prior & had been working on the event (for example, she was our State Committeewoman as of the February 15, 2012 registration date to qualify to vote or be a delegate) that Dow is being credited as the ex-officio National Committee Woman position.

That would explain why Healey was seeking election & put on the official Romney slate.


[ Parent ]
she is not a delegate (5.00 / 2)
Her term by RNC rules does not start until AFTER the convention.

Full Disclosure


http://www.redmassgroup.com/pr...


[ Parent ]
Succinct Answer (5.00 / 1)
See, I knew that there had to be a darn good answer.  I should've consulted my notes!

[ Parent ]
A Great Day in the 9th (5.00 / 2)
Plymouth County Sheriff Joe McDonald ran a great caucus in the 9th Congressional District in Mattapoisett.  Over Republicans participated in the democratic process.  Sheriff McDonald kept the process moving and made sure that evry voice was heard.

Congratulations to DA Tim Cruz and the other elected delegates.            


Too bad (5.00 / 1)
Unfortunately, while we undoubtedly crossed paths today in Mattapoisett, I don't think that we met.

I couldn't agree with you  more, Sheriff McDonald did a darn good job.  It took a wee bit longer to count the votes then I expected but the caucus was well run and there was plenty of excitement and enthusiasm.

I pray it carries over into local organization and electorcal success.  


[ Parent ]
Can someone post the delegates who were elected today? (5.00 / 1)
I had to attend a funeral and couldn't make the meeting in my district.  Can someone post all the delegates who were elected, by district?

"Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty." - Ronald Reagan

Possibly (5.00 / 1)
I'm sure someone has a master list of winners for delegate & alternate, but not all of the results are complete.

The 9th Congressional district is a bit up in the air as there are 20 provisional ballots that must be addressed.  Unofficially, it was Tim Cruz, Tom Hodgson & Jim Cummings as delegates with Jeff Perry, Judy Crocker, and Jennifer Wilson.

The alternates are certain but the fourth place finisher, Steve Kohler, is close enough that the 20 provisional ballots if counted & break his way could change the outcome of the delegates.

I'm not sure if a similar situation exits in any of the other districts.  


[ Parent ]
Almost forgot. Anyone else sense funny business going on w/ caucus locations? (5.00 / 1)
In the 5th our location was Framingham and all 3 Romney slate delegates live in Framingham.  I also found it convenient that the location had a large drop down screen and projector hookup that could be used by Romney folks to display a video (tried to display more like, audio was poor and daylight made it unviewable).

And something that I was thinking about during the caucus, is it normal for the Mass GOP to send out an email about a candidate's slate rather than the candidate themselves sending an email about their slate?

Just a few things to think about for people bemoaning how Paul folks jiggered the system.

---
"Men invent new ideals because they dare not attempt old ideals. They look forward with enthusiasm, because they are afraid to look back." - G.K. Chesterton
http://red.ma.altercate.net


Video Screen (5.00 / 2)
There was also a video screen in use at Old Rochester Regional High School in Mattapoisett (9th district) and it was used to play a video from Ann Romney seeking support for the official slate.  

Initially, one person in the auditorium started to boo Ann Romney.  It was a sour note to most and ultimately he was drowned out by applause.  While a sour note, I suppose I understand his sentiment against the "official slate".  The video was put into play in the 9th as Sheriff Tom Hodgson yielded a minute of his time to play the video.

As far as the location, I think in the 9th that Mattapoisett was pretty much a no man's land for most if not all.  The only exception would be Timothy Reed, an 18-year-old UMass Dartmouth student who was part of the Liberty slate.  He lives in Fairhaven and that's the next town over from Mattapoisett.  Reed was full of energy and got much applause and positive comments.  Here's hoping he gets engaged with the Fairhaven RTC.

NB - Mattapoisett is part of my Second Bristol & Plymouth Senate district as State Committeeman (along with New Bedford, Dartmouth, Fairhaven & Acushnet).  Mattapoisett is my only municipality within Plymouth County.


[ Parent ]
I couple of things about the "Reagan Liberty Slate"... (5.00 / 1)
...that kind of didn't sit well with me.

1.  Comments during a prayer by the clergy specifically "God bless Ron Paul" are not appropriate.  It's embarrassing to your group.

2.  When the nominations were being made, the Romney Slate had people get up, and make the nominations by saying a couple of words for the individual and then it was seconded.  The Reagan Liberty Slate stood up, and rapid fire read a name, followed by someone saying "second" right next to the original person.  Seemed kind of hostile, and the Chairwoman had to politely ask the gentleman to reread the names so that she could write them down.  This really wasn't necessary, it seemed like they thought they weren't going to be allowed to run.

Other than these things, the speeches on both sides were inspiring.  I liked what I heard from the Liberty slate.  They will help us, but they also need to show us they are willing to play with the others too, and not seem like they are trying to pull a hostile takeover of the political process.

Thanks for a good day!

"Don't let me get away with it. Check me out. Don't be the sucker generation." -Ronald Reagan

www.inBrockton.com



Your caucus had a prayer? (5.00 / 1)
1) I'd actually say that the prayer was inappropriate.  If the caucus process doesn't include a prayer then there shouldn't have been one.  There wasn't a prayer in the 5th.

2) The process in the 5th was different.  Persons nominating a delegate did not speak, they merely nominated and were done.  The delegates themselves were given 3 minutes each to speak after all nominations were finished and written down.  

---
"Men invent new ideals because they dare not attempt old ideals. They look forward with enthusiasm, because they are afraid to look back." - G.K. Chesterton
http://red.ma.altercate.net


[ Parent ]
Prayer and other thoughts. (5.00 / 1)
First of all there is nothing inappropriate about opening a caucus with a prayer. The House and Senate of these United States open up their daily sessions with a prayer. This does not in anyway violate the establishment clause.

Secondly, It's exciting to to see people getting involved and participating in the process. That said; these delegates who are actually Paul supporters, ought to remember that they do their cause no good if they try to subvert the rules at the convention. I for one am very sympathetic to much of the message these folks espouse. Save, Mr. Paul's views in certain areas of foreign policy and national security, I could embrace the vast majority of his positions.  But Mr. Romney won the primary. Ron Paul failed to get 15% of the vote. It would be the epitome of insanity to attempt abstain or otherwise mess with the vote on the first ballot.
Further these kinds of shenanigans in full view of the American public will only damage the nominee. And that includes Ron Paul if by some strange convergence of the stars the RNC Convention nominates him on a later ballot.

Thirdly, while I am happy to see Massachusetts Republicans involved and indeed part of me is very happy that the rank and file stood up to the "old guard."  It's time for rank & file activists and the "old guard" or MA-GOP leadership to start building a less adversarial relationship.

The leadership of the party has to realize that the rank & file activists want the party to win. They just don't want to have to becomes "Democrat Lite" in order to do it. But ultimately they want to work for the success of the party and they want deserve a seat at the table.

Likewise the rank & file, need to tone it down when it comes to attacking the party leadership.  Chairman Maginn is a huge improvement over his predecessor. He's no liberal as some have accused him of being. He's got a job to do. Like any new Chairmen, it's only natural for him to initially favor the "players" that have been running things. Let's give him a chance to reach out to new folks that were elected. Let's see who he appoints to committees. Hopefully some of the new names that led the charge for change on March 6th will be given a seat at the table.  I was in fact disjointed that Chairman Maginn didn't do that by putting some of the New State Committee people on the delegate slate. That would have been a great move and wonderful olive branch. Perhaps, because he's only surrounded by the "players," such a move didn't dawn on him.

So just as some of today's caucuses started with a prayer. and just as Chairman Maginn started the April 5th meeting with a prayer, I would encourage all Massachusetts Republicans pray for Chair Maginn. Let's pray that the Lord give him the wisdom and strength to unite us all and lead a host of Massachusetts Republicans to victory.  


[ Parent ]
Doesn't need to violate the establishment clause. (5.00 / 1)
Although the MGLs seem to apply so who knows maybe it does violate the Establishment Clause.  

That wasn't my point.  It is simply is not a formal part of the process.  There should be no room for improvisations.

The House and Senate have long standing traditions and also have official chaplains.  Who decided that there should be a prayer?  Who is the official chaplain of your caucus?  How was that determined?

---
"Men invent new ideals because they dare not attempt old ideals. They look forward with enthusiasm, because they are afraid to look back." - G.K. Chesterton
http://red.ma.altercate.net


[ Parent ]
then why recite the pledge of allegiance? (5.00 / 2)
It doesn't really matter if it's not called for.

What are they "occupiers" who are ready to protest any little thing that doesn't go wrong at the time?

Would they do something equally inappropriate at a some other moment?  Throw blood on someone because they are wearing fur, spit on a Soldier?

When clergy is praying, it's common courtesy to not interrupt.

It is in the same category of turning your back during the pledge.

If you have a problem with it, lodge a complaint.  It was an invocation, not a prayer service.  We didn't sign hymns.

The point is, nobody was going to stop them from participating in the process.  Leave the nut cases at home.

"Don't let me get away with it. Check me out. Don't be the sucker generation." -Ronald Reagan

www.inBrockton.com



[ Parent ]
Good question. (5.00 / 1)
I could do without it.  For me it seems to be something best left in grammar school.  Anyone here start their day by arriving at their office cube, then standing to attention, hand on heart, boldly reciting the Pledge of Allegiance?  I don't.  I also don't see the need to do it at every single meeting no matter how big or small.

---
"Men invent new ideals because they dare not attempt old ideals. They look forward with enthusiasm, because they are afraid to look back." - G.K. Chesterton
http://red.ma.altercate.net


[ Parent ]
I might have to revise this... (5.00 / 1)
...apparently after I left, the Ron Paul delegation caused quite a ruckus.

So much that the Chair of the caucus felt she needed a police escort to get out of the building.

We don't want that in Brockton.  We have had enough of that under Larry Novak and his stooge.

"Don't let me get away with it. Check me out. Don't be the sucker generation." -Ronald Reagan

www.inBrockton.com



[ Parent ]
So Who Are the Delegates? (5.00 / 1)

I didn't go yesterday as I thought the establishment had it wrapped up (my bad).  

Who was elected delegate and alternate and were they part of the Reagan Unity or the establishment slate?


Tent didn't get bigger; it now contains a circus (5.00 / 3)
So Rob is saying the "winning" coalition for the MassGOP is: social conservatives, the Tea Party, and now... the Ron Paul people.  I'm sure Chairman Walsh is thrilled that our party has yet another tribe that turns off lots of voters.

The idea that the Paul people are here to build the party is naive. They are a virus that wants to re-write our DNA to serve their purposes. Do I think they are going to go out and support Republican candidates they aren't in agreement with? No. But that's the test of party membership: you share some principles and you are willing to compromise for the greater good of the party.

Take this delegate fiasco. Since Romney has been chosen already and he is a former governor and standard bearer for the party, all the talk should be about supporting him. But their talk and shirts and stickers for Paul show that their mission is him and not Romney nor the MassGOP.  This isn't surprising as his people nationwide have organized to get as much power at the convention as possible - power for Paul, not the party. How do I know? Because nothing they have said or done indicates they want to work for our nominees.

I respect the Paul people just as I respect the Tea Party. I like lots of their ideas. But they are not loyal to the Republican party. They are loyal to their leader. Here's a test to give them: when my favorite guy dropped out, I said to myself, oh, well, I will have to get behind Romney now. Fine. I will readily admit that the success of the Republican party is far more important than my loyalty to Jon Huntsman. Find me one Ron Paul devotee MassGOP delegate who  will say these words: "The success of the Republican Party is more important than Ron Paul" and mean it. You won't find one. That's why they are not really Republicans. They are a colonizing force, not party builders.


My point exactly (5.00 / 2)
Republicans think they're dealing with a new branch of people who want to be Republicans. Paul-bots don't want that. They want to use party apparatus to take over the convention and nominate their guy, regardless of what everyone else says.

They're a million person cult.

Again, I'll use the North Korean analogy. You can't deal with that nation like we deal with others. They break any promise they make and ignore international rules. Paul-bots are the same. To continue to believe they'll "fall in line" is to misjudge these people. They have no allegiance to the Republican party.

If these people are trying to steal delegates and a convention, what makes anyone think they'll nominate Romney on the first ballot? If they don't, there's no mechanism to bring in Romney delegates to replace them and they know it!

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez


[ Parent ]
Does Senator Paul sanction this behavior? (5.00 / 1)


"Don't let me get away with it. Check me out. Don't be the sucker generation." -Ronald Reagan

www.inBrockton.com



[ Parent ]
You don't think he does? (5.00 / 1)
This IS the Ron Paul campaign strategy! Either the Congressman is ignorant of his campaign staff or choosing to ignore it, hardly qualities we want in a President.

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez


[ Parent ]
Nothing New -- It is the Game of Politics (0.00 / 0)
The party has played this game for years .. and you are just now becoming aware that politics is a dirty business?  Haven't you been watching the primary process?  

Our candidates are being force fed to us by those that run the party --- and we are expected to march in lockstep behind the candidates that they chose? We are expected to give money, time, and resources to elect a candidate that we only had the illusion selecting?  

This primary election has been so contrived and controlled that anyone that cannot see it must be blind or lacks critical thinking skills.

I do not blame the Ron Paul supporters for playing the game of politics and playing it well to have an opportunity to influence the party platform.  


[ Parent ]
Ed (5.00 / 1)
You will find one.  He's their leader in Massachusetts.  He was very diligent in screening delegates.  

Don't buy into the media narrative.  They aren't all the same.

Full Disclosure


http://www.redmassgroup.com/pr...


[ Parent ]
Well said Ed ... and RIGHT ON! (5.00 / 1)


"Together we are the GOP team"

[ Parent ]
They say a picture is worth 1000 words (5.00 / 2)
[ Parent ]
11% presents two challenges, not one (5.00 / 1)
So I see this flaw all the time. People say 11% means we must do anything we can to increase party membership.

Ok - but 11% means something else also. It means that we will be far below 50% for so long that we must also not do anything to turn off all the unenrolled people we need to vote for us.

So if a group of people showed up at a big MassGOP activist event and wanted to get involved - and said they believed 9/11 was an inside job.... what would you say? Would you say "Well, 5% of America believes that is true, so... Welcome!" Or would you say, "Please go away. I know you want a limited government but you're toxic and would hurt us among the unenrolled."

I think you'd say no to them (Of course we all know the Truthers are mostly Ron Paul followers, eh?) but my point is that we must build party registration without alienating the rest of the voters.  We would easily do that if we got lots of young people, blacks, Hispanics, more women, south Asians, etc - but adding more right wing groups might sometimes hurt more than help.  


[ Parent ]
Actually, most Truthers are far-left progressives and LaRouche followers... (5.00 / 1)
...but anything to stigmtize a group rather than address individuals.

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

[ Parent ]
I don't believe that (5.00 / 1)
In fact, Ron Paul is sometimes asked, most famously in the 2008 Republican primary debates, why so many of his followers believe 9/11 was an inside job. He said he didn't know why - not denying the validity of the question at all.

I am not trying to paint the Paul people as all being crackpots. They are not. However, there are many crackpots among them.

Now the LaRouche people... they are almost entirely nutjobs. ;-)


[ Parent ]
There you go again ed (5.00 / 1)
So Rob is saying the "winning" coalition for the MassGOP is: social conservatives, the Tea Party, and now... the Ron Paul people.  I'm sure Chairman Walsh is thrilled that our party has yet another tribe that turns off lots of voters.

You don't win by agreeing with your democratic opponents all the time.  You know how I know? Because some of our legislative leaders have done it for 10 years and where did it get them? 15 members of the house of representatives.

I'll say it again.  Of the  18 new members of the House of Representatives 17 are socially conservative.  That's 94% of the new members.

The House of Representatives is about 50% pro-life, democrats and Republicans.  You can espouse your establishment rhetoric all you want Ed, it's a free country.  

I care less about what John Walsh thinks is a winning coalition for the Republican Party and more about how we can build our numbers.  Are some of the Ron Paul people "kooky" yes, but so are some of the establishment supporters.  

What is important is that the actual delegates were carefully screened and many are what this party needs.  Leaders who can guide their faction towards helping us.  This does not happen when the establishment acts the way you are acting.  

If Republicans continue to behave in public like you want we won't grow.  There will be no alternative, and people will continue to be unenrolled or Democrats.  Do you know how I know that?



Full Disclosure


http://www.redmassgroup.com/pr...


[ Parent ]
I actually AM a Republican! (5.00 / 1)
Rob -

I want people in my party to actually identify themselves as Republicans. Is that too much to ask? Even you list your party affiliation in Facebook as "Conservative". Why didn't you type in Republican into that field? Is the label Republican not good enough for you? (If it isn't, that's too bad, as you are a good citizen, and we must improve it.)

Libertarians are a wonderful group. I also respect the sub-set of libertarians who are the Ron Paul people. They are not primarily Republicans. For example, go to Brad Wyatt's FB profile page. All Ron Paul - including listing only Ron Paul as "The Person Who Inspires You". Party affiliation? Not Republican. I wonder if he, or any of the new delegates have ever introduced themselves to someone else and saying, "And I'm a Republican" - as people like myself and Sue Blais do. No way. This doesn't mean they are bad people or that they will vote in a way that will hurt America. In fact, they are almost certainly part of the overall solution to America's problems.

But while the party should have a big tent that includes labels like "conservative" or "tea party" or "libertarian" - it must be based on people who call themselves Republican. The brand won't get better if more good people won't use it. I am proud to use it, even in my vicious anti-Republican neighborhood.

All over the Internet there are articles like "http://www.policymic.com/articles/7650/ron-paul-wins-massachusetts-delegates-in-district-caucuses" Even among the Ron Paul sites there is talk of a coup d'etat.

None of these posts say that the Republican party will be enriched by their often-good ideas, and that this was healthy. I have read more than a dozen Paul posts on this happening and not one of them was anything other than how they might weasel out of voting for Romney. Does that sound like they have joined the Republican party?

If you think that the Ron Paul people can be brought into the party - as we have tried to do with the Tea Party - fine. But I don't see them interested in that whatsoever. They should be our partners in good governance, not formal members of our party organization.  


[ Parent ]
Then you don't know Brad Wyatt (5.00 / 1)
Brad Wyatt often introduces himself as a Republican.  

You frankly don't know Brad Wyatt.  When Scott Brown needed a Worcester office in 2009 and 2010 who donated it Brad.

On facebook yes I list Conservative, but I don't think I hide my Republican party membership.

On the Tea Party, I know many GOP tea partiers.  MANY.  

Full Disclosure


http://www.redmassgroup.com/pr...


[ Parent ]
Bit of a difference (5.00 / 1)
In needing a bigger tent for more attendees vs the clowns taking control of the circus.

Rob, have you read the Ron Paul boards?

Wyatt is a great guy and honest broker, but seriously I doubt even he can can get the horse back in the barn if they want to cause an issue in Tampa.

http://www.fairvote.org/respon...

Do you honestly think having a possible majority of our state's delegation abstaining on the first vote is a good idea?

And before you think I'm just trying to reverse yesterday, I'm not. If they would do what "normal" people do and unify the party over whatever difference we have in order to take on Obama, I'd be fine with it.

I took a few moments to look up a few of these delegates on FB and watched their Daily Paul post coverage of the day.

http://www.dailypaul.com/22951...

These guys may be telling Brad one thing but planning to do quite another.

Either way, I'll agree with you on this, they pointed out what many of us have long known. The state party should roll over the lack of organization.

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez


[ Parent ]
Asking self: was I at a middle school yesterday? (5.00 / 3)
It felt a TON more like being in a Beer Hall... in the thirties.

Consider the inclusion and openness of the usurpers: The FIXED 6-person slate flyer handed out had NO web site, no phone number, no address, no contact information whatsoever. What if I want to join? what if I want to now know who "my" delegates to Tampa indeed represent? what if I want to know what my new "platform" may entail? This is all now a black hole, basically.

Consider their openness - based on the tally, it is clear that it was a block vote - close to 110 voted for this slate, 70 to the nearest others. They came to vote this way as part of an agenda. Indeed, many entering said to me "Can't I just vote now" without even entering the caucus room.

Inclusion folks? I understand Republican in MA has been dubbed "old white males", etc, but there ARE younger folks, woman, different ethnicities. This slate of 6 however were ALL very young white males, with short and mostly unknown voting records.

The "Ronald Reagan Unity Liberty Slate" is nowhere to be found in a Google search or facebook - I found 8 entries, all new within the last 24 hours. There will now be a group in Tampa from MA that have NO apparent history, story. Only what I suspect is a mostly hidden agenda.

The flyer passed around had NOT ONE WORD mentioned about either Ron Paul or Mitt Romney. Some, in their 2-minute speeches, gave some lip-service to Romney. Most could not even say the word "Romney". NONE said the word "Paul".
Seems to me Ronald Reagan would NOT approve of yesterday's tactics by these rabble rousers.

And, lastly, I thought it appalling, in your face, for one of their organizers, during the pledge, to stand with his BACK towards the flag. Perhaps the only one of honesty, as indeed he did have a Paul shirt on.


[ Parent ]
My Party Right or Wrong? (0.00 / 0)
Power for Paul and not the party?  Excuse me but, isn't that what the other candidates have done?  Aren't they seeking power to come to the convention with or negotiate with Romney for some benefit they seek in exchange for an endorsement?  The Republican Party would be dead without the help of the Tea Party.  The Ron Paul people were very much a component of the Tea Party.

What turns off voters is a party that stands for nothing -- and that is what the Republican Party evolved into before the Tea Party revived it.  Loyalty like respect is earned.  Blind loyalty -"my party right or wrong" is a trait of a subject, serf, or servant and leads eventually to tyranny with the party elite selecting candidates that the grass roots party members are suppose to dutifully support whether they believe in his policies or not.

Those days my friend are gone and if you look at history the period of straight party vote is a fairly recent phenomena on the political scene.  Until the depression and WWII most people in the country voted the candidate and not the party.    


[ Parent ]
Apparently I'm the only one that can enjoy the irony of Rob's post... (5.00 / 2)
Rob opens with a quote from Gov. Pawlenty about the expanding the tent and not shrinking it, and then celebrates when the right-wing fringe of the party purges slates backed by the Party;s Presidential nominee.  Awesome political development for someone like me and I really have to admire Rob's Orwellian ability to spin this as positive party building event.

I've got to take this over to BMG...it's to damn good to keep to ourselves.


More irony... (5.00 / 2)
That a candidate/party which bemoans elitism and entitlement even had a official slate to begin with.

---
"Men invent new ideals because they dare not attempt old ideals. They look forward with enthusiasm, because they are afraid to look back." - G.K. Chesterton
http://red.ma.altercate.net


[ Parent ]
They don't turn me off with their beliefs... (5.00 / 2)
...neither do the socons.

What turns me off is the actions, and the way they are trying to do things.

Generally it was peaceful except the few instances of embarrassment that I already mentioned.

If they try to "steal" the convention, then that's just wrong.  If they had real courage they would invigorate the Libertarian party instead of trying to hijack the next more popular party, because guess what guys...  If you turn off the rank and file Republicans, you will only have a Libertarian party that has the name Republican.  Along with their enrollment numbers.  And that is far lower than 11%.

I would like to reach out to the organizers.

If you have folks in your group who are this involved, I'd like them in the Brockton Republican City Committee.  I can only speak officially for Ward One (as I am the chair), but I am pretty sure we would love to have activists like this who would be willing to play with us.

I don't want names, just tell them about us if they are in Brockton and have them email me at DHeidke@BrocktonGOP.com.  They don't need to tell us who they are affiliated with.  As long as they are Republicans we would be happy to have them!  Let them come in and work with us.

"Don't let me get away with it. Check me out. Don't be the sucker generation." -Ronald Reagan

www.inBrockton.com



[ Parent ]
Dave - a lot of them are. (5.00 / 2)
A lot are on - and some even STARTED - RTC's.  One Liberty Caucus guy I met at the delegate caucus 4 years ago not only joined his local RTC, he ran for state committee man.

I am not an Agenda 21 believer, but have no problem with auditing the Fed and other tenets of thier ideas.  Overall, their ideas center more on GOVERNMENT and relevant issues that a lot of so-cons that get welcomed with open arms.

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican


[ Parent ]
Dave - a lot of them are. (5.00 / 1)
A lot are on - and some even STARTED - RTC's.  One Liberty Caucus guy I met at the delegate caucus 4 years ago not only joined his local RTC, he ran for state committee man.

I am not an Agenda 21 believer, but have no problem with auditing the Fed and other tenets of thier ideas.  Overall, their ideas center more on GOVERNMENT and relevant issues than a lot of so-cons that get welcomed with open arms.

If you attended a few TEA Party meetings, you would already know some of the leaders, and could work with them instead of just swallowing the image put out there by people with their own agenda.

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican


[ Parent ]
Yes, but Brockton has had enough (5.00 / 1)
of the schemers...  It took a lengthy federal prison sentence to get rid of one of them, and the other one was rendered powerless by the lack of the money faucet.

When Novak gets out of prison, his primary money source will most likely be gone also, so hopefully he won't be around.

We would rather have some folks who would like to play by the rules, and not make us all hate each other simply to stay in power.

Ron Paul will never be president, and if they play any of the games feared, they will just embarrass the party on a national basis and the socialist will be elected again.  And they will also taint Ron's son who would probably have a chance as he is not 985 years old.

As I said, I don't disagree with their platform, but I am extremely turned off by the tactics.  Especially after what I heard about happening after I left yesterday.

"Don't let me get away with it. Check me out. Don't be the sucker generation." -Ronald Reagan

www.inBrockton.com



[ Parent ]
Check me out. Don't be the sucker generation. (5.00 / 2)
Go to a few meetings, and meet these barbarians first hand.  

It appears that they know the rules far better than some state Reps. who were not immediately elected due to their inherent wonderfullness.

You call them 'schemers' based on what?  Some national blog postings?  The MA people I've talked to have zero intent to absain, try to force a brokered convention, etc., for the simple reason that they can do math - they know there are not enough delegates/sympathizers to nominate Ron Paul.  Instead, they plan to address the platform process, same as the so-cons have done in the past.

The losing slates did NOT know math.

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican


[ Parent ]
You mention 4 years ago... (5.00 / 1)
...Larry Novak ran for delegate and won, knowing full well that as a condition of his bail, he was not allowed to travel out of his state.

His alternate was broke, and Larry wasn't willing to pay for him to go.

I don't need to go to a meeting to see how they conduct themselves in public.

And I'm not going to trust someone who doesn't deserve my trust again.

"Don't let me get away with it. Check me out. Don't be the sucker generation." -Ronald Reagan

www.inBrockton.com



[ Parent ]
Dave - I know you like to blame Larry for many things, but I draw the line at Ron Paul (5.00 / 1)


Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

[ Parent ]
I'm not blaming Ron Paul on Larry (5.00 / 1)
If you look at the path of this thread. I explained that the Brockton Committee has gone a long way to purge the bad feelings and animosity that was grown and fostered by Larry Novak and that we don't want more people to come to the committee and do the same for someone else. No matter who it is.

The example I site just happens to be the shenanigans that were played at the last caucus to choose delegates for the convention. Which is relevant to the discussion of shenanigans at caucuses.

Peter, whenever something happens somewhere that is shady and corrupt. There is probably going to be a story that I can relate that has to do with Larry Novak. He is a bad person in every way I can think of.  I know that some people want to break that connection, but it's always going to be there because it's the ground truth.

If I have the opportunity to make these connections I will. I do it so that when this pig finally gets out of jail those hangers on won't come back and rally around him with his laundered millions and again tarnish the State and Local committees.

An funny how whenever I do it seems to piss you off.  

"Don't let me get away with it. Check me out. Don't be the sucker generation." -Ronald Reagan

www.inBrockton.com



[ Parent ]
Consider me the John Howard of Larry Novak (5.00 / 2)


"Don't let me get away with it. Check me out. Don't be the sucker generation." -Ronald Reagan

www.inBrockton.com



[ Parent ]
You do realize (5.00 / 1)
that there is no irony right?  It is the establishment of this party that regularly keeps a small tent.  An establishment you support.  The Ron Paul people and libertarians have not felt at home in the party of the libertarian Ronald Reagan.  With Kamal Jain and Brad Wyatt this is changing and will change, as long as people like you don't drive the libertarians away.

Full Disclosure


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[ Parent ]
I like them (5.00 / 2)
I donated to and voted for Sean Ryan. I like libertarians and want them to vote Republican. I just don't want them to sneak into party positions under false pretenses.

The establishment is not weak because they don't welcome special interest right wing groups. They are weak because they have not attracted enough regular people to be in the party. This is probably mostly not their fault, but it has happened anyway.  


[ Parent ]
Libertarians are a lot closer to 'regular people' than the anti-gay loons that claim to be GOP. (5.00 / 3)


Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

[ Parent ]
Ha! (5.00 / 1)
Yes, Mr. Porcupine -

We agree there. I don't think the social conservatives are closer to the average Republican citizen at all. But just because the libertarians are closer to the middle Massachusetts voter, doesn't mean they are close. :-)

What I meant by "regular people" is that big, missing middle of Republicans that you will find in other parts of the country. These are businesspeople, churchgoers who aren't evangelicals, young professionals who aren't political nerds, tradesmen who aren't pro-union, etc.

Since I have only lived in ultra-liberal neighborhoods these past 13 years in Massachusetts, I probably am not the best judge of the average voter here, either. But I do read about them!


[ Parent ]
libertarian Ronald Reagan?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! (5.00 / 1)
Your depth of revisionism is unmatchable  

[ Parent ]
Yes sir. (5.00 / 1)
Perhaps you need a history lesson

If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals -- if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

RONALD REAGAN, Reason Magazine, Jul. 1, 1975



Full Disclosure


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[ Parent ]
I've got to take this over to BMG...it's to damn good to keep to ourselves. - Festus (5.00 / 1)
F-Off Festus!  This is a a family matter.

Molon Labe

[ Parent ]
Well said Rob! (5.00 / 2)
A great day for the US Constitution as well!

From the sounds of it (4.50 / 2)
At the max, 2000 people showed up. There are over 400,000 Republicans, and over 4 Million voters in the state. This was not a day of mass participation, which only indicates to me further that caucuses are an antiquated and poorly representative form of democracy. Our delegates to the National Convention in Tampa represent not where our party needs to go in winning over large portions of the electorate by focusing on the bread and butter issues of the economy, but rather will appease a small, electorally rejected group of ideologues. Congratulations.  

(R)- Outside 495

I agree (5.00 / 1)
Rob one question:

If these people are so trustworthy, why didn't they just claim they were "Ex" Ron Paul supporters who now want to support Romney.

Why the deception of many senior citizens there?

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez


[ Parent ]
Did you expect that of other delegate nominees? (5.00 / 1)
I have no idea who any of the nominees at my caucus supported during the primary.  Even with the Romney slate I am merely assuming they supported Romney.  As someone mentioned, Bob Hedlund voiced support for Ron Paul previously and yet was on the Romney slate.

---
"Men invent new ideals because they dare not attempt old ideals. They look forward with enthusiasm, because they are afraid to look back." - G.K. Chesterton
http://red.ma.altercate.net


[ Parent ]
Bob Hedlund Endorsed Romney this time around (5.00 / 1)
NT

(R)- Outside 495

[ Parent ]
he also endorsed Paul (5.00 / 1)
Yes, it is possible to endorse two people for one race...if you are Bob Hedlund.  Bold, eh?

[ Parent ]
Romney supporters (5.00 / 1)
were elected as McCain delegates last time.

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[ Parent ]
True (0.00 / 0)
That is true -- they were.

[ Parent ]
Big mistake by the Party I just realized (5.00 / 1)
There was no collection of email addresses on the attendee sign in form.  None.  

ugh

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Shouldn't be a form (5.00 / 1)
We should have a tablet or smartphone with a wufoo form to put people into the right place in our systems. As I yelled at the Boston Republican City Committee meeting two weeks ago: "No more paper!"

[ Parent ]
Ouch (5.00 / 1)
NT

(R)- Outside 495

[ Parent ]
Apparently Charlie Baker lost his race for Alternate... (5.00 / 2)
...You folks did a great job with you Spring Purge.

So much for his robocalls. (5.00 / 1)


---
"Men invent new ideals because they dare not attempt old ideals. They look forward with enthusiasm, because they are afraid to look back." - G.K. Chesterton
http://red.ma.altercate.net


[ Parent ]
Exactly (5.00 / 1)
The likes of:
Sheriff Lew Evangelides
State Rep Paul Frost
2010 State Senate Nominee and State Committee Member Kim Roy
State Rep Sheila Harrington
2008 State Rep Nominee Dan Haley
2010 State Senate Nominee Ed McGrath
2004 State Rep Nominee Nicholas Sanchez
State House Minority Leader Brad Jones
Fmr. Lt. Governor Kerry Healey

Needed to be tossed aside for who??? These people have done nothing but put the party behind...

(R)- Outside 495


[ Parent ]
Wow... (5.00 / 1)
I also understand that there are some districts with provisional ballots and if they are counted, the bloodbath will be worse.

[ Parent ]
What bothers me (5.00 / 3)
Is the perception that the delegates tossed were tossed because others felt that even though they did nothing before Saturday to help out, they should go to Tampa to "send a message".

Now from this above list, each one of these people in some form or fashion took time out of their lives to help Romney secure the nomination. Some did it by phone calls, others through door knocking in NH, and still others by soliciting donations.

What did the Reagan Liberty Union Slate do to help support Romney?

Not a damn thing.

Yet somehow the people that did nothing are going to be "Romney's" delegates while the people that busted their ass and took time away from their families are home.

Great day for party unity indeed.

And you wonder why we are at 11%? If you supported the Paul-bots, take a look at yourself.


"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez


[ Parent ]
Toss Paul Frost (5.00 / 1)
   Three years ago in 2009, he didn't want my town of Millbury to have an active RTC. My mentor Brock Cordeiro guided me to my state committeewoman Shari Worthington. When at the brink of organizing, we found out we had an RTC! It hadn't met for at least 8 years. The RTC secretary was Frost's legislative aide at the time. The chairman was her husband, the treasureer her mother-in-law. Hmm.
   Understand one thing: Paul Frost Frost doesn't do anything that doesn't benefit Paul Frost.

[ Parent ]
You're too kind (5.00 / 1)
Thanks for the kind words and I'm happy to hear that your RTC is alive, well, and moving forward.

That said, hey...I like Paul Frost!  :)  


[ Parent ]
It wasn't a spring purge (5.00 / 4)
It was a fair election.

I'm sorry, but multiple people, myself included told the establishment that the Ron Paul people were coming for over a year.  If they did not take this seriously it was nobody's fault but theirs.  

Delegate caucuses are not coronations.  The establishment's response to the fact this was going to happen was to put up very high-profile people for delegate.  Shutting out the everyday activists who often run to try and go.  They thought, hey there's no way XYZ person can lose.  

That was a very arrogant strategy, and left them in the situation they are in.

NOBODY is entitled to be a delegate, at least under the rules of the Massachusetts Republican Party.  You have to run, in a fair and open election.  If you cannot win that election, you don't deserve to be a delegate.

A state representative who had originally thought of running told me there is no way he would have lost, because he would have brought people.  

Victory goes to the people that show up, it's politics 101.


Full Disclosure


http://www.redmassgroup.com/pr...


[ Parent ]
Agree on the turnout Rob (5.00 / 1)
Absolute failing by State Party and at least one person's head should roll down on Merrimack St. over this fiasco.

However, I'll disagree with you over the coronation. How many of the people irritated that they weren't on the official slate did ANYTHING to get Romney elected other than bitch about him and support another candidate since last year?

You honestly want to call people who actually did work to get Romney elected entitled while glorifying the people that did absolutely nothing over 14 months but manage to stop by Arkham Asylum on the way in to the caucus as patriots?

Wow that's a reach.

When did you go all OWS on us?  

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez


[ Parent ]
Its an election (5.00 / 2)
It wasn't the responsibility of anyone on "Merrimack Street" to get bodies in the door. It was the responsibility of those that agreed to put their name up for nomination.  

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[ Parent ]
Yes it's an election (5.00 / 1)
And anyone can run. Most sane people would acknowledge that we should send people that supported the candidate, regardless of whether it had been Cane, Gingrich, Santorum, BTO, or Paul. Previous years we would usually defer to those that did something.

Bravo to the insurgents for executing a great game plan. I just think that this is a horrible precedent we're setting.

Do you think the Ron Paul people would feel the same way if Paul won back in March and Romney bussed in hundreds of people to get his people in place for the delegates?

There'd be a run on Reynold's Wrap the like of which we may have never seen again.

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez


[ Parent ]
Jefferson (5.00 / 1)
In 2008 Many "McCain" delegates were Romney supporters.  This happens all the time.

Full Disclosure


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[ Parent ]
jynx (5.00 / 1)


"Don't let me get away with it. Check me out. Don't be the sucker generation." -Ronald Reagan

www.inBrockton.com



[ Parent ]
Lots Jeffferson (5.00 / 3)
Lots.

There were a LOT of people who spent countless hours working for Romney in NH in both elections, that were very upset they weren't "allowed" to run.  It would have been one thing had the official slate email come out of Commercial Street, but it came out of Merrimac Street.  That one letter has done more to harm what has been a great start to Bob Maginn's term than anything they've done.  

It was a mistake. Which is unfortunate, because I think that Maginn has been a very effective party chairman.

Full Disclosure


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[ Parent ]
You're right Rob... (5.00 / 3)
...but on the other hand, they better not play games at the convention.

And they need to learn to play well with others, and not turn into the Occupy movement.

You're out of college guys, try and act like it.

"Don't let me get away with it. Check me out. Don't be the sucker generation." -Ronald Reagan

www.inBrockton.com



[ Parent ]
They played well at the last convention (5.00 / 2)
as Peter Porcupine said. They will support Romney.  Will they support the platform? Will they support Romney's choice as VP, those things I can't tell you, but no delegate anywhere in the nation is pledged to support those things.  

That's why we have a convention.

The modern need for an antiseptic political process really escapes me. Vanilla politics is boring.

Full Disclosure


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[ Parent ]
When the chair of the caucus needs a police escort... (5.00 / 1)
...to leave the building, that's far over the line.

That happened after I left, before I left, I was only slightly embarrassed for them.

We need to be civil, or we will continue to lose.

"Don't let me get away with it. Check me out. Don't be the sucker generation." -Ronald Reagan

www.inBrockton.com



[ Parent ]
Which District Dave, (0.00 / 0)
That seems to be the exception.  Not the rule.  Most of the posts I've seen have highlighted how professional the vast majority of these people have been.

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[ Parent ]
8th (5.00 / 1)


"Don't let me get away with it. Check me out. Don't be the sucker generation." -Ronald Reagan

www.inBrockton.com



[ Parent ]
What was the disagreement about? (5.00 / 1)
Was it about the process for counting provisional ballots?

Did the caucus chair overreact at getting questioned?  I wasn't there so can't know.

Full Disclosure


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[ Parent ]
I think it had to do with the Provisional Ballots... (5.00 / 1)
...I would like to know how they were being handled myself.

1.  Why did someone get a provisional ballot?
2.  How is it determined that the provisional ballot should be counted?

I was not at the disturbance, but I was talking to someone else who was there after I left.  It was said that the Paulbots were shouting over the coordinators, and at the end the Chairwoman needed an escort out (not sure if it was police or not).

I'm still trying to get more info, but why did they need to conduct themselves this way?

Whether the chairwoman overreacted or not is not for me to determine.  She obviously must have felt intimidated.

"Don't let me get away with it. Check me out. Don't be the sucker generation." -Ronald Reagan

www.inBrockton.com



[ Parent ]
Caucuses (5.00 / 1)
Arn't fair by their very nature. There's no absentee ballots, you have to show up for hours somewhere far from home, and the date is pretty arbitrary. It was the rules, and the Paulist people took advantage of them. You are certainly correct they showed up, and we have to honor what was decided at them. It's my hope that in the future we learn from this experience that caucuses are not the way to go, and pray to God, these people honor their word.

myself included told the establishment that the Ron Paul people were coming for over a year.

You were correct, and they should have seen it coming themselves, check out what happened in Missouri. Santorum won the beauty contest by a huge margin, lost the caucuses.

to put up very high-profile people for delegate.

Did they "put up" these people, or did they run for delegate so they could follow Mitt Romney to Tampa, who is a close friend to many of them?

(R)- Outside 495


[ Parent ]
I disagree (5.00 / 1)
The picking of a nominee is the business of the party.  I don't believe first that unenrolleds should be allowed to vote for the GOP choice for president. I also think we would both grow our party registration and strengthen our organization if we had a true precinct caucus process.  Whereby we elected delegates to a congressional district convention to elect delegates.  

Things don't always need to be made easier.

Full Disclosure


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[ Parent ]
Agree with the party exclusion (5.00 / 2)
Everyone likes to point fingers at Merrimack Street for the 11% figure (I'm sure I have at some point as well), but its really the result of the ballot access laws in Mass. The Dem's have been losing registration too. GOP doesn't have many primaries here, so what's the point, the average person will register as an Independent (Unenrolled) then. Makes them feel good about themselves too, Americans likes their Independence.

Caucuses however, are the wrong way to go. They do not grow a party, they make it beholden to small groups of regulars. Instead of laying down a state-wide organization to get the average voters out, as they do in NH, you are calling up the same folks for a year, and they represent a fraction of those that vote in the fall. Look at all the problems with the caucuses this year, from Iowa to Missouri, and now even in Massachusetts. Massachusetts has a history of using primaries, we should build on that.  

(R)- Outside 495


[ Parent ]
So you voted for Liberty Slate? (2.50 / 2)
You don't need to answer if you'd rather not. It is a secret ballot and I respect the process.

Quick Question though.

How the hell does Dave Kopazc get 49 more votes than Lew Evangelidis? If there is a process that allows kooks like that to get in over a well respected Republican Sheriff to represent Massachusetts in Tampa, shouldn't it be revised for 2016?

Now, Lew's not exactly "establishment" GOP. In fact he took on Brad Jones in a coup attempt a few years back. Did the Liberty group reach out to a well qualified candidate that they helped to elect? Why not put him on both slates and just vote out who they thought didn't deserve it?

We're not exactly sending the best and brightest down there are we?

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez


[ Parent ]
To be a delegate to attend the national convention (4.50 / 4)
To be a delegate to attend the national convention means you need to be elected at a caucus.  Elected Officials understand how they be came elected, they had people ensuring their voters showed up.  They didn't just send out a flyer from the MASS GOP and say these are the people you need to support.
The Romney Slate got beat at their game its called "politics."
We should all take it as a learning experience and get these enthusiastic people involved in our upcoming elections, for state rep and state senate.
Stop bitching and whining that the MASS GOP slate candidates lost, its not helping us learn from how it happened.  And how these people aren't qualified, there were no qualifications for this elected position except for paying for the trip,hotel and food.
An elected official had no more right to be a delegate than any other registered Republican.
The fact that the Mass GOP establishment didn't expect the liberty group to show up in force is unfortunate to the people that were on their official slate.
We should remember that "Life's victories go to those that show up."

[ Parent ]
I'm not complaining about who won... (5.00 / 1)
...but how they conducted themselves.

They are obviously active and committed, and expressed a desire to engage them.

But not if they are going to cause trouble and strife.

"Don't let me get away with it. Check me out. Don't be the sucker generation." -Ronald Reagan

www.inBrockton.com



[ Parent ]
Kopacz is a Paulbot Too (5.00 / 1)
Dave Kopacz has no interest in supporting Romney at the convention, because he is a dedicated Paulbot.  He is just executing a plan to take over the convention.

Many of the Paulbot leaders in Massachusetts are kooks.  Kopacz is just the tip of the iceberg.  Quite a few of them are now elected to the state committee.  They need to be exposed for the nuts they are. There is no reasoning with them, because they will compromise nothing.


[ Parent ]
"Paulbots" on the state committee (5.00 / 1)
Quite a few of them are now elected to the state committee.  They need to be exposed for the nuts they are.

Ok then, expose them.  Who are these nutty paulbots on the state committee?  I've met only two Paul supporters on the state committee and I certainly wouldn't describe them that way.


[ Parent ]
In time... (5.00 / 1)
In time they will be exposed, especially a newly elected SC member who lied to an elected Republican claiming he supported Romney.  He was a "Reagan Unity" candidate on Saturday and didn't utter Romney's name.  Thankfully we anticipated a Paulbot slate and we were able to fend it off.  We are gatering data and evidence proving he, among others, are very active Paul organizers.  When the data and evidence is organized and completely verfied (which it will), it will be released for all of you to analyze and criticize.

[ Parent ]
I don't think its a big secret (5.00 / 1)
I don't think it is a big secret that the Unity Slate is made up of Ron Paul supporters, but I think they also know that Ron Paul isn't going to be the nominee.  They have pledged support to Romney for the purposes of the convention.  That's all they needed to do.

Others on the thread here have noted rightly that:

1) Ron Paul Supporters were elected as Romney delegates in 2008.  When they were asked to support McCain out of party unity, they did.  They were released, they could have supported paul, but they didn't

2) People who supported Mitt Romney during the primary process went as John McCain assigned delegates in 2008.  

This sort of thing happens all the time.

It's great that you took the "warnings" of those of us who tried to let people know to expect a large crowd seriously.  Others did not.  

THere is no need for exposes if you look at the people actually elected as delegates many are long time GOP activists who's "crime" in the establishments eyes is that they support another candidate.  

Heck I supported Newt Gingrich, did that disqualify me from standing for delegate if I pledged to support Mitt Romney?


Full Disclosure


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[ Parent ]
lessons to be learned (5.00 / 3)
To the RP people: You have a candidate with great ideas. Don't allow your own behavior to cause him and your contingency to be compared to Larouche. Your behavior yesterday was less than dignified. I applaud your organizational skills and ability to get out enough voters to make such an impressive showing. Don't blow it by shouting out at a clergyman who is making an invocation. You did nothing for your candidate by your lack of respect for him or the political process. All you had to do was shutup and show respect for 3 minutes. When there is a pledge of allegiance, stand up, put your hands over you heart and say it. It's again, respect. When attending a convention, dress appropriately. It's not a wedding or a prom, but try to look like you didn't just come from an Occupy campsite.  You have some great ideas. We want to hear them. Don't come with hostility. Come with an eagerness to discuss so that we can find mutual solutions to our mutual issues. We can work together or we can work separately. From what I saw yesterday, you didn't seem to want to work together. I want to work with you. Again, I like your candidate and a lot of his ideas but you intimidated a lot of people yesterday. Not the best way to forget relationships.

To the RNC establishment: If you guys knew that there was going to be 'disruption' at the delegations, issuing a mandated slate wasn't the solution, was it? Try to use your state committee people and RTCs more. They are in place for a reason and go very much ignored. A lot of republicans got emails with directions on how to vote. You want to tell me how to vote? A lot of us had a tough time with that one. I can understand WHY you did it, but you did it all wrong. How about local committees coming up with names? How about the state committee people having a meeting with everyone who wanted to be considered? It would show a little respect and acknowledgement for all of the hard work done on the local level. The RP people did it and it worked quite well. If we asked them to join us with their organizational and networking skills, we could find common ground and work together using our individual talents. Communication on the state level has been notoriously poor. Don't always leave it up to the active local groups. They're good, but they need support from the state level. Like some of the attendees yesterday, you need to learn about forging relationships.

All of our core values are lower taxes and less government. If we focus on that, we can work together. Shouting at the clery, lack of respect for the pledge of allegiance and a mandate of who to vote for is not moving the party forward or helping us beat Obama.

I've spoken to colleagues who attended other delegations yesterday. This is the overriding theme with what took place. This is an opportunity to work together. A lot of people dropped the ball yesterday.

Mike C


It was a great day for the Paulbot-MARA Coalition (5.00 / 1)
The Paulbots had a great day yesterday capturing delegate seats fair and square, according to the rules, but their intentions are in my opinion unethical.  There is an attempt nationwide to capture these post-primary delegate caucuses to send "Romney Delegates" to Tampa and vote for Ron Paul.  There are many who believe that the convention will not be able to stop them from changing their vote to Paul in the first round.  They have absolutely no problem defying the will of the voters of Massachusetts and voting for their hero.
In Massachusetts, the Paulbots have teamed up with MARA and other splinter groups like the Massachusetts Tea Party Coalition to take over the party.  It started in earnest leading up to the state committee races on Super Tuesday, and they will continue their quest.  I, along with others in the greater Attleboro area, have been warning the so-called establishment since November that this was happening, and unfortunately they did not prepare for what happened yesterday.  I agree with Rob that they only have to blame themselves for their defeat.  They did not turn out their vote.
I saw first-hand what was going on last month when I lost my race for State Committee.   Paulbots, MARA members, socially conservative PACs, and the socially conservative Tea Party coalitions shepherded their resources and outspent and outworked their opponents to win many seats in the state committee.  They ran on an anti-establishment message that resonated with a lot of voters (most of who were independents).  Some of the people who won have absolutely no political experience, were former Democrats who voted for Obama in 2008, and are only interested in things like social issues, Agenda 21, and destroying the Massachusetts Republican party to reflect their image.  Also, fringe crazies who have been kicking around the shadows over the years have also jumped into this coalition.  What do most of the leaders of this movement have in common?  They are Paulbots through and through.
I have nothing against Ron Paul personally.  I agree with quite a bit of his positions on issues, but one thing is missing... he has not won ONE PRIMARY EVER!  Now ,the Paulbots are trying to hijack the convention, because they can't believe the Republican voters of the United States did not vote for their hero, Congressman Ron Paul, a man who has never had ONE sponsored bill ever be voted into law in his entire career.  I have been around many Paulbots on the campaign trail in New Hampshire and Massachusetts, and I constantly hear rant and rave how stupid we are and we don't get it.  
I voted in the 4th Congressional District caucus to support Romney's slate, because he overwhelmingly won the primary last month.  I voted for New Gingrich in the primary, however, I thought it was prudent to first and foremost vote for Romney's endorsed slate.   Fortunately, many Republican activists in our area understood that the Paul people were coming, and we were able to defeat them and elect a great slate of delegates and alternates.  These are elected officials and party activists who have been working hard in the trenches for decades working on behalf of all Republicans in Massachusetts.  I know four out of the six delegates personally, and they are all committed conservatives.
The so-called "Ronald Reagan Unity" slate consisted of Ron Paulbots.  Not one of them mentioned Romney's name in their three minute speeches.  They pontificated about themselves and how they are real conservatives or real Republican activists.  I can guarantee you none of them really know much about Ronald Reagan or what he really stood for, and I openly challenge any of them to prove me wrong right here on this blog.  They chose that name to mask their real name: "The Ron Paul Victory Slate".  That was their intention, and they did not openly expose their slate until yesterday.  They used the element of surprise and deceit leading up to the caucus, and it worked.  I am so glad we stopped them in North Attleboro.  Unfortunately the rest of the state (except the 8th) did not listen to our warnings.
Many of the new state committee men and women are on a mission:  to change the party apparatus to reflect their mission (social conservatism) and somehow jam it down the throats of the primary voters who reject many of them time and time again.  Their next target will be our Republican elected officials in 2014 in the primaries.  I guarantee that.  
Do not mistake that they will go away when Ron Paul goes away.  They will not.  They have amassed quite a bit of power in a short period of time, and they will continue to strike.  They need to be exposed to voters who they actually are and what their true agenda entails.  I look forward over time to doing just that.  

Who they are... (5.00 / 1)
Okay, folks. To everybody wondering who yesterday's insurgents are/were,  it is "Massachusetts Blue Republicans".

From their FB page, I quote: "We are Democrats and Independents. We are registering Republican for this election season to nominate Ron Paul. With our numbers, we can join the "Ron Paul rEVOLution", win the delegate positions to the Republican National Convention and absolutely ensure that Ron Paul becomes the nominee, and then, the President."

Note that they do NOT include Republicans.



[ Parent ]
a tad more.... from February 3 2012 (5.00 / 1)
"What is everyone registered to vote as? February 15th is the deadline to change your registration to "undeclared" (same as independent) or Republican to be able to vote for Ron Paul on March 6th. You must be registered Republican if you want to help send Ron Paul delegates to the national convention in Tampa by voting in your local caucus."

[ Parent ]
You're being misleading (5.00 / 2)
Note that they do NOT include Republicans.

You're citing a special outreach project of the Ron Paul folks -- by definition, it's going to be targeted at non-Republicans.  Frankly, I think that's a good thing and something the GOP needs more of.


[ Parent ]
Misleading? (5.00 / 1)
I'm being misleading about a "special outreach" program that is by its very nature disingenuous and misleading?

Seems to me that this is RP's game now... disruption in Tampa with independent/democrat delegate efforts, not just in MA but in Louisiana, Missouri and other states as well.


[ Parent ]
Rob, thank you for writing this. (5.00 / 3)
I hope that many in the party read it and take it to heart.  Our party really is too small and has too much in common to be sidetracked into a personal squabbles at this point (and I'm not saying this is happening, it just seems like it could).

The simple fact that Ron Paul supporters are still fighting is a testament to their tenacity.  It's exactly that kind of "fight to the last man" dedication that we need to win more races in this state, and perhaps more importantly, to truly hold our government to account.  They should be encouraged to stay involved in the process as most of us on Redmass are.


I'd just like to point out that this little spat is between Ron Paul's supporters and the establishment MA GOP (0.00 / 0)
The Soc Cons are just minding their own business.  

Molon Labe

I got through about 15% of the comments above. (5.00 / 1)
And all I have to say is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Both sides are making this an issue when there really isn't anything here. The Ronulans actually cared to take the time to organize to win the caucuses for the right to spend several thousand $ each so that they can watch Mitt Romney be our next nominee. If anything I see it as the National Party will be getting $ from people they normally wouldn't have gotten a dime for.  

Alex S.

Treasurer of the Springfield Ward 7 Republican Committee




As most of you already know, (5.00 / 1)
the National Convention's tradition includes a first round pass and a come back vote to the Nominee's Home State where the delegate count is ready to put him/her over the top.

The Chair of the Massachusetts delegation will know what the delegate numbers are as will the National Convention Chair, and will pass that information to other states that will diplomatically "pass" and allow Massachusetts to announce and start the celebration!

If the RNC realizes that there are delegates from his home State of Massachusetts that may not vote for Romney (as committed) and in fact embarass him in the process, the RNC will adjust, and the media will be all over it; playing right in to Obama's hand.

In 2008, McCain /Palin left the convention plus 6 over Obama. It was a spirited unifing spirit that captured the support of many Americans only to be erased by the subsequent collapse of Wall Street in September.

If ever there was a time (in my lifetime) that we needed to send a clear unity message from our Convention, this is the year. {If Obama gets four more I'm not sure a Socialist Country will allow future Conventions?}

Congratulations to all that were elected to be Delegates Saturday!  


GOP Establishment members were an embarrassment in the 3rd District (0.00 / 0)
I am glad to say I attended my first delegation selection caucus last Saturday in the Mass 3rd District to cast my vote for the Ronald Reagan Liberty Union Plank. Our plank swept the 3rd and the GOP establishment types, all the stuffy and crony politicos and their FEW supporters in attendance were an embarrassment to the party and to the democratic process. Aside from the statements made over and over again about being committed to Romney, and that the trip to Tampa would cost upwards of $3000 (as if the delegates weren't aware there would be costs involved), one party hack, Alan Rubin, made a point of pulling an underhanded parliamentary trick, by casting himself onto the alternate delegate list (after losing his initial bid) so he could get up and speak again, then withdrew and threw his support to state rep, Harrington.

Contrary to what Sarah Palin says about Reagan and inclusion, Ronald Reagan WON because of the Reagan Democrats that came over to our party in the general election AND of course the Independents that saw value in his message for the US. Party hacks intend to sink our chances of winning as they did in 2008 by automatically and intentionally cutting off support of so many Americans that have no desire to support wars for Israel, or continue dishing out foreign aid to countries of dubious character, again Israel, and at the same time would like to see the positive Republican values of national and personal self-reliance, withdrawal from globalism and the Liberal Capitalist Empire that we have become, and a restoration of law and order in our cities. Saturday Massachusetts re-embraced the Grand OLD Party of the last century and rejected the newer values that the Republican Party picked up from the Wilson, FDR and LBJ Democrats. On Saturday Massachusetts once again started a Revolution, God Bless America.


What we witnessed was town meeting 101 mistakes (0.00 / 0)
I know you were upset by Rep. Alan Rubin nominating himself to make a comment and throw his support, but that and all the other self-serving self-nomination was really the stupidity that lost the election for the non-Ronald Reagan plank.

They quite simply split their vote in more ways to Sunday....I was laughing watching the "political experts" committing the first sin of Town Meeting 101 class.

Maybe my 26 years living in NH makes me more alert to such things.....but these people make their living around people and votes....but when each of them stood to offer their own names in nomination for alternates, I GLADLY seconded (with many others) because I say the silliness of their ways.

I think many of those who did not get elected as Delegates could simply NOT see themselves NOT going to Florida....perhaps some of them felt "it was coming to them", or they "deserved it" over anyone else....well, even this role as party delegate is one where we "serve" others....as elected office should be too. So any idea that "I deserve it" is just too self-serving for me.

Whatever the reason.....the actions at the 3rd District delegate caucus were silly and IMHO in many ways "amateur politics". (which would be understandable for newbies to the process.....but many of the people doing this were supposed to be experienced political party people)


[ Parent ]
Disclosure (0.00 / 1)
If there are people on this comment list that are demanding disclosure, then I suggest that participants of this site must state who they are and not hide behind pseudonyms and create multiple accounts so they can stir up trouble within the GOP ranks. State your names AND your agendas. They electoral process worked as per the Constitution, delegates were elected fairly, and as part of the electoral college they have final say in casting THEIR votes for the next nominee from the Republican Party for President.

That being said, I am NOT a Democrat or Independent as one pseudonym hack posited, there may have been some there, I don't know, however we are all REGISTERED Republicans. I am much further to the Right than anyone else who was there, I am a NATIONALIST, and I voted for the people who I think are bringing better values and INTEGRITY to this election, not like the party hacks who live off of the free meals of their constituents. Those folks are listed under the OFFICIAL MA GOP Mitt Romney Plank. Each and everyone one of them are spongers. It is time for new blood.


Really not helping your cause here.... (0.00 / 0)
They electoral process worked as per the Constitution, delegates were elected fairly, and as part of the electoral college they have final say in casting THEIR votes for the next nominee from the Republican Party for President.

The Constitution had nothing to do with Saturday as it was an internal Republican caucus that elected delegates to the RNC, not the Electoral College. As a self described NATIONALIST I'm sure you knew that....right?

Also, the delegates elected Saturday cannot chose who they vote for in Tampa. That decision was made for them by the voters in March. Or are the NATIONALISTS advocating for ignoring the will of 265,000 voters in favor of a guy who has not won a single state and garnered only 35,000 votes in the primary? If so, what nation are you representing?

not like the party hacks who live off of the free meals of their constituents. Those folks are listed under the OFFICIAL MA GOP Mitt Romney Plank. Each and everyone one of them are spongers. It is time for new blood.

In your tinfoil world the ones that worked hard to get Romney 72% of the vote and nominated are the "spongers", but the Ron Paul supporters who helped him get 10% are the visionaries?  

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez


[ Parent ]
We can be "A Big Tent", or close minded....which do you think will win in 2012? (2.00 / 2)
Congrats to all who ran and won the Delegate slots on the 28th....As a Ron Paul supporter and voter in the Delegate elections this year I was very proud and happy to see the dedication, organization and professionalism of the Ronald Reagan Delegate slate at my districts delegate elections.

I see a lot of distrust and hate in some of the posts here....and I appreciate that there are people in this world who distrust and even hate to the point of not accepting things like this. In this case, I believe all the rules were followed, and I also believe the people involved want nothing but a better country and better world. Being "one of them", I also think most I know work selflessly to bring that vision forward.

I suspect that much of the distaste for what happened at the delegate elections is about dislike for change, and for a loss of "control". Well, let me say that control is supposed to come from the electorate and so it has and we should be happy to see people involved and growth in the Republican party.

Now...we can move forward, accepting these new "converts" to the party...make them welcome and include their ideas into the discourse and policies of the party platform and party direction, OR the current party controllers can commence on a "scorched earth" policy in order to keep any possibility of power or control or voice from those new delegates.....I suggest that being open, accepting and actually being the "big tent" people exclaim our parties to be would be the best path.

Republicans (as do Democrats) need ALL the votes they can get to be elected, and being closed minded and controlling with a set of "our own" will not look very much like a big tent and NOT be very inviting to any undeclared.

Oh....and we in the "Home of Presidential Candidate Romney" have a special place in the world because I am sure we will be seen with particular interest by the rest of the country (read that media)....as we should.....so I suggest we ALL think before act out because doing so will put a black eye on the works of the Republican Party and that isn't what anyone in the party wants, is it?

So let's be open and accepting....doing so, we can be the example that makes our candidate (and party) the "big tent" I always hear about.


Good luck dealing with the MA GOP establishment. (0.00 / 0)
I'm a Soc Con so I know what it's like to be kicked around like a used soda can by the establishment in this state.  Good luck BigQ, I hope you make it further than I did.

Molon Labe

[ Parent ]
Very nicely written post biggueue, (5.00 / 1)
However I do feel I need to clarify your "people not liking change" statement.

Change is great, especially if that means more support for the causes we all support, and let me add, I am an admirer of Ron Paul and all of the final four Republican Candidates.

What was at issue during this particular Caucus was the fact that we had many Town elections on the same say as the Caucus and we were committed to helping our Grassroot Candidates. (BTW we won several Town Selectman and other Board seats!). Our town Committee members, who would of been at the Caucuses were busy working the polls and phones all day. Even members of Towns and Wards that did not have elections helped the ones that did.

Consequently, many of the Delegates (not all), that we have worked with for many years and have worked hard to earn their opportunity to go to the RNC, did not have our votes and (in some cases), lost to people that I have never seen involved in any campaigns in my 40 years of Republican involvement.

Now, due to these same Delegate Candidates not being elected, (and to Brock Cordeiro's earlier point), many hard working Grassroots Delegate Candidates will have little chance of winning one of the 11 Delegates selected by the MRSC. There will most likely be 40 people vying for the 11 seats and I'm sure a lot of heat from everyone to no longer consider trying.

For many it was a once in a lifetime opportunity that is now lost. In hindsight, I probably would probably have asked everyone to still do the right thing and choose the local elections over the Caucus however there is a sense of fairness that has been sadly lost here and it has nothing to do with change.


[ Parent ]
Don't fall for the guilt trip BigQ! (0.00 / 0)
What was at issue during this particular Caucus was the fact that we had many Town elections on the same day as the Caucus and we were committed to helping our Grassroot Candidates.

That's BS Bull $H!T  You have every right to get delegates to the convention to affect the party platform.  YOU DID NOTHING WRONG HERE BigQ!



Molon Labe


[ Parent ]
You should know better RRRR, (5.00 / 3)
I'm not one to BS on important matters such as this.

In my District, we had Town elections in Raynham, Bridgewater and Carver.

Check out the news on Wickedlocal Raynham. See the photo of all the people standing outside the polls, you should recognize a lot of the Republicans; that picture shows about 20% of the help we had. I have the Blue and white jacket on the left that I wear often with Red.

Talk with Bill Rivers in Bridgewater or Mark Townsend in Carver and their contests.

No BS here, what I stated in my post is sincere and truthfull, and you should know me better then that by now RRRR.


[ Parent ]
You're right .... I was trying to start shit. Sorry about that Bill. (5.00 / 1)
BigQ ... Billnick is a straight shooter and in time you'll see that if anyone around here fills posts up with BS it's usually me.  

I got all caught up in the moment back there ... Usually it's the Soc Cons V MA GOP Establishment but this week it's the Establishment v Ron Paul's Army so it feels good to just kick back with some popcorn and watch the show.  



Molon Labe


[ Parent ]
RRRR (0.00 / 0)
Thanks for gracefully responding and being straight up!

Not many bloggers are open minded enough to revise their prior comments like that. You obviously are bigger then that.

Enjoy the Popcorn and the show! I'm sure you will be the star of some new feature down the road!

No beverage?


[ Parent ]
Earned or Awarded for being good servants. (0.00 / 0)
 Earn the right??? A sense of fairness??  It seems to me that a small group of Republicans have been running things as a little clique for some time.  They have essentially blocked any real grass roots input and participation in the party. What you saw at the caucuses is exactly what most of us in the party have been experiencing for years. Except this time the party leaders got a taste of their own medicine and the tables were turned -- when an organized group of liberty minded republicans finally said enough is enough and used the same tactics the party leaders have use against grass roots Republicans to gain control of the delegate election process.  They did this by being organized and used there numbers to their advantage in what is usually a rubber stamp process for the party elites.  In other words, they got out the vote.  They knew that generally only a few dozen party insiders showed up for each of the caucuses.  This demonstrates just how tenuous the party elites power really is and how susceptible they are to a coup d'état by a small but, organized and dedicated group.  Isn't that how our current Party leaders came to power and maintained that power?    

[ Parent ]
Some Reagan Unity Delegates Reject the Big Tent (4.50 / 2)
I appreciate your comments bigqueue.

Here's a story you should know...

After I lost my race for state committee, I was called a RINO who should "go in (a) penalty box with other ousted Republicans or register as a Democrat" by a delegate who was elected on Saturday, because I suggested that Massachusetts Republicans should adopt the 80% big tent philosophy that, ironically, Ronald Reagan pursued as GOP standard-bearer. The now delegate didn't even care that I am a very strong Reagan conservative, and I have worked very hard at many levels to a few great conservative Republicans in Massachusetts.  

The big tent philosophy you correctly support should work both ways.  However, some in the Massachusetts Republican Assembly leadership, who are now convention delegates (or unsuccessfully ran), believe anyone who associates with any socially moderate/libertine Republicans are RINOS and reject the Reagan Big Tent as capitulation to the left. It is wrong, unfair, and catastrophic for our party.

I embrace the enthusiasm and support many of the principles advocated by Unity slate candidates who spoke at the 4th Congressional District Caucus.  Unfortunately some organizers and leaders of the Unity slate are out to "oust" anyone they disagree with and "put them in the penalty box" instead of growing and unifying the party. I sure hope that mentality does not prevail at the convention in Tampa, because it may just help re-elect the real adversary: Barack Obama.


[ Parent ]
THAT'S the party for ME! (5.00 / 1)
The Libertine Republicans!!

(Seriously, Foog - may I call you Foog? - you are correct that some leaders are bitter and exclusionary.  But many more are interested in limited govenment, not instituting a theocracy.  You see exclusionists among the conventional GOP as well, not just the Liberty people.  I would venture to say that every faction - from progressives to reactionaries - number these purists among them.  While they sometimes gain temporary success, after a while they wonder why nobody follows them when they are so pure, arrogant and RIGHT!  Don't judge the most by the few.)

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican


[ Parent ]
Hit the nail on the head. (5.00 / 1)
If people showed up to a tent and wanted to expand it, were willing to put the labor and time into the process of sewing new canvas, expanding the framework, and were attracting more people to the cause of expanding the tent, them I'm all for it.

If a group of people show up in force, announce that anyone that doesn't agree with them now is banished from the tent, then determine that they know how to build a better tent and begin cutting down the tent, how is that a benefit again?

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez


[ Parent ]
What is expanding the tent? (0.00 / 0)
A district 6 caucus attendee got so jazzed up that he collected signatures to run against an incumbent democrat this weekend.

A district 2 elected delegate is starting her ward committee in Worcester.

A district 6 alternate was praised by Charlie Baker and wants to get active. And he's only 18 and in High School.

What other definition of expanding the tent do you have.  Is it "sit down, shut up, and make phone calls for our designated candidate"? If that's it, those days are over.  The party is a reflection of its most active members.  These guys are active and that's fantastic.

Full Disclosure


http://www.redmassgroup.com/pr...


[ Parent ]
Growing the Party (5.00 / 1)
I think it's great that we have enthusiastic, liberty-minded, Constitutional-minded, small-effective-government minded folks joining the party. We're supposed to be the party of less government, lower taxes, personal responsibility and liberty aren't we? We would like to grow the Party, right?

Here is a quote from Ronald Reagan and as usual, I agree with him:

If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals-if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

Now, I can't say that I will agree with all the things that the present group who call themselves Libertarians in the sense of a party say, because I think that like in any political movement there are shades, and there are libertarians who are almost over at the point of wanting no government at all or anarchy. I believe there are legitimate government functions. There is a legitimate need in an orderly society for some government to maintain freedom or we will have tyranny by individuals. The strongest man on the block will run the neighborhood. We have government to insure that we don't each one of us have to carry a club to defend ourselves. But again, I stand on my statement that I think that libertarianism and conservatism are travelling the same path.


Seems we're not alone. (0.00 / 0)
http://hotair.com/archives/201...

Last week, I wrote about the Ron Paul movement's success in Minnesota, organizing effectively to take delegates in the Congressional-district conventions that elect delegate to the big show in Tampa.  Minnesota isn't the only caucus state where this has taken place, the Washington Times reports, and the Paul campaign may end up with a more significant presence on the campaign floor than the official caucus/primary counts suggest.  Will they be able to create "mischief" on the floor and disrupt Mitt Romney's smooth ascent to the top of the ticket?

Ralph Hallow writes that a few more surprises might make Paul strong enough to deny Romney a first-ballot nomination, but that's unlikely.  Massachusetts aside, the Paul campaign has mainly flexed its muscles in states where Romney didn't do well - and where Rick Santorum succeeded, such as Minnesota, Iowa, Louisiana, and probably Missouri when they hold their fourth or fifth event that will actually select delegates.  The net effect of the Paul conversion will be to weaken Santorum's influence, not Romney's.  Romney will win enough bound delegates from primary states to secure the nomination on the first ballot.

At this point, what would Paul gain from disrupting the convention?  He won't get the nomination, and he's not going to get the VP slot, either, especially if he disrupts the convention.  Neither will his son Rand, who only just started his first-ever political office.  The Pauls want to play a long game, transferring the movement leadership from father to son, while maintaining their influence with the GOP.  Rand has much more potential than his father ever did within the party, and everyone knows it.

That potential will be destroyed if Ron Paul and his movement derails the convention and it leads to a second Obama term; they will take all of the blame, and they will deserve it if they pursue that strategy.  The Pauls are more rational than that, and they have used a frankly brilliant strategy to lay the groundwork for Rand in the next few cycles.  They played by the rules and won these obscure battles.  The big question - at least here in Minnesota - is whether they will stick around and do the work that these jobs require.  Paul movement members have a reputation for a lack of follow-up in this state, and we'll see whether that applies after these victories.



G.O.P. Growth. Opportunity. Prosperity. For all Americans.

Karl (TLC)Weld


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