Down Comes the Axe

9 out of 10 Mass Voters Actively Choose NOT to join the MessGOP (5.00 / 2)

Once again, the MessGOP gives the grassroots clear reasons to NOT enroll, NOT support, NOT donate, nor vote R in Mass.

Can't win, so they 'finess', cheat, bribe, etc...
Great way to win small battles, and lose the war...

p.s. Wasn't Sisk the guy who finally got booed at and shouted down at his caucus?

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by: lonniebrennan @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 03:03:52 AM UTC

More Hubris when humility is what is called for (4.50 / 2)

The MA-GOP / Romney Campaign made the mistake of not including a single conservative that won a State Committee that won a seat on March 6th.
These people would have been loyal Romney Delegates. But by denying them a seat at table (by merely selecting 1 per district is an alternate or delegate), they ensured that the social conservatives that elected these good people, would not show up to vote for the Romney Slate.

So the end result was the caucuses were overwhelmed by Ron Paul supporters and the Romney slated delegates got their clocks royally cleaned.

Again this could have been avoided had the powers that be not been tone deaf. But no, they chose hubris over humility, confrontation rather than cooperation, alienation over acceptance.

So now we have more hubris as the Romney campaign will disregard the results of lawfully held caucuses. And they wonder why the base of the party is not happy with the Romney campaign.  And I speak as someone who voted to endorse Romney in my RTC.

This move will also prove to be unwise as whatever hope the Romney campaign had of winning over Ron Paul supporters come November will be severely damaged should they pull this stunt.

I say all this as loyal Republican, who wants to see unity, who wants to work his but of for Romney and the entire GOP ticket. But trying to convince the base and the Paul people to support Romney got a whole lot more difficult.  People don't like to be taken for granted. And Romney is better than the alternative only gets you so far.

This could have been avoid, if MA-GOP chose the wisdom of Solomon instead of the foolhardiness of Rehoboam the son who succeeded him and whose stupid policies led to the division of Israel.  

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by: John DiMascio @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 03:18:11 AM UTC

Y'all I suggest you google the following: (5.00 / 1)

1.  "Zoramite"

2.  "Zoramite heresy"

3.  "Rameumpton"

What makes these grandly relevant is that in the Book of Mormon these are descriptions of a people so full of pride that the climb up stairs, stand above their fellows, and declare "Aren't I wonderful because I am rich.  I am better than you.  Don't you wish that you were like me"

The Latter Day scriptures (AKA Mormon Scriptures) specifically warn against just this kind of behavior.  Y'all aren't supposed to know about this stuff.  But I know.  

Disclosure:  I am a Mormon who stopped going to church because of disagreement with the church's involvement in anti-gay, and other political pomposities with my donated money.

Gotta wonder what the Mittster would think to be called on the carpet for behaving like a Zoramite.    

Deborah Sirotkin Butler
Make Open Meeting Laws apply to the Massachusetts House, Senate, and Executive - Sunlight and air are the best disinfectant

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by: AmberPaw @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 03:27:18 AM UTC

Brigid Kennedy-Pfister beat Mitt Romney (4.67 / 3)

This is a tale of two caucuses, held on two different Saturdays, at Framingham Town Hall.

We begin the story with the Fifth C.D. Democratic caucus, and Brigid Kennedy-Pfister of Arlington convinced a whole bunch of people to come out and elect her as an Obama delegate.

Fast forward to the Fifth C.D. Republican caucus. Mitt Romney, the presumptive nominee resides in the district, yet a band of (Ron) Paulists were able to gather up a few folks and overwhelm the GOP Regulars to win the caucus.

If Brigid could gather enough people from Arlington, to fill enough seats in Framingham's Town Hall, to be chosen as a delegate to the DNC, why couldn't Mitt find enough folks in the entire Fifth Congressional District to win it for his delegates?

This is why the Brigid Kennedy-Pfisters of this nation are going to be the ones who defeat Mitt Romney. After all, if Mitt can't inspire enough party faithful in his hometown to go to a caucus, how can he inspire the nation?

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by: pablo @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 04:08:10 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not going there. (5.00 / 1)

For several years I've been doing Christian/Catholic apologetics. I was involved in Counter-cult ministry (no I'm not calling Mormonism a cult so calm down folks). So I'm aware of some of the obscure teachings of Mormonism.

But I'm not going to knock Mitt for his belief system. He is entitled to it and I am not remotely concerned about voting for a Mormon. I think he'd make fine president. And he has my vote. I'm voting for President not Pope.

But I really don't think this is Mitt's doing. If it is he was ill-advised by one person.  This has the finger print of one person. The one man who has been pulling the strings behind the scenes at the MA-GOP for too long--- The man who is known for bringing a bazooka to play a game of "Chutes and Ladders," let alone to a political knife fight.

The whole thing is a "Clusterflop" that could have and should have been avoided, with a little diplomacy and little reaching out. Heck, our side has been reaching out since March 6th only to be rebuffed.

This decisions has real and definite implication in the long-term. Let's just hope, cooler heads will prevail or it could have implications and serious ramifications in the November elections. People are furious. And they may stay home in November. Romney can afford low Republican turnout, his chances of winning Massachusetts are about as good as my being named the starting center for the Boston Celtics (I stand exactly 5 ft tall). But this move may really stick it to Scott Brown. People are angry and feel disenfranchised. The MA-GOP doesn't get it. And don't give me any line about this being Romney. The darn slate went on MA-GOP stationary. I got an email from MA-GOP, not from the Romney Campaign. Merrimack Street has to answer for this abortion! And if there is axe that needs to come down it should come down on the neck of the puppet master with ties to Hugo Chavez. Cause his DNA is all over this. The results of the paternity test are in. And the political bastard-child could have been  fathered  by no other.
If you can't figure out of whom I speak, you haven't been following MA-GOP internal politics long enough. Just look up hubris in the dictionary, it may come with picture!    

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by: John DiMascio @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 04:44:55 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Hate to say it (5.00 / 5)

But 99% of people don't care at all about MassGOP internal politics because:
1) It doesn't really matter to much in the end
2) It will only frustrate you further
3) There are more fun and important things in life

(R)- Outside 495

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by: MerrimackMan @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 04:53:49 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yup (5.00 / 1)

1) Aye
2) Indeed, I blame my weight gain over internal politics
3) Yup... Like getting jack villamaino elected state rep, drafting paul ferro to run for office, & getting a convention here in Springfield

Alex S.
Chairman of the Springfield RCC
Mandate to Lead!!! lol

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by: SpringfieldGOPSec @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 20:39:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

That may be true MM BUT... (5.00 / 2)

That may in well be true MM but, and its a BIG but...

The 1% who do pay attention are the ones who knock on doors, the ones who make phone calls, the ones who donate, the ones who host coffees etc...


Full Disclosure


http://www.redmassgroup.com/pr...

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by: Rob "EaBo Clipper" Eno @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 22:22:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Totally true (0.00 / 0)

It's not even the 80 - 20% rule.  The people that care make up the 5% that are doing 95% of the work!!!  And the GOP is waking up the sleepers among them that never knew how BAD they were/are!

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by: Term Limits @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 14:23:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Good! (0.00 / 0)

It had to happen. You can't have two stories in the Boston Globe in one week where one says that there will be a spotlight on our delegation at the convention because of our home-state nominee, and then another saying we've been invaded by Ron Paul supporters who don't support that nominee. No. freaking. way.

While this was the necessary thing in my opinion, there must be blame/accountability elsewhere for this fiasco. Anyone in "the establishment" who could have prevented this (i.e. gotten more actual Republicans to show up to vote) should be punished in some way. I know some people will say that these delegates being nominated was the punishment for a weak establishment. Fair enough - but it could become a national embarrassment at the convention for all Republicans, and we can't give a talking point to the Democrats here. (I don't want to see David Axelrod in the opposition war room in Tampa smiling and saying, "It doesn't look like Mitt Romney even has the support of his own delegation...")

So this was tough medicine, but needed.

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by: edfactor @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 03:37:16 AM UTC

In defense of the Romney Folks, vis-a-vie Turnout... (0.00 / 0)

the non-Ron Paul turnout was 3-4 times what it has been in past caucuses.

When I was elected as a delegate in 2000 from the old-old 5th district, I was the top vote getter with 20 votes.  The caucus last Saturday in the new 3rd (mostly the old-old 5th) district, there where 198 people, 8 times 2000's turnout.  About 60% where Ron Paul folks.

So, essentially, the Romney folks, through emails (I got three) and auto-calls increased non-Ron Paulite turnout at my caucus 400% compared to the last time I was in that district, 12 years ago.

Turnout at the 2004 3rd CD Caucus was like 40 people.  it was 260 this year (although that's a much different district now).

This pattern repeated across the state.  Remember, the Ron Paul people actually lost in several districts due to Romney turnout.

So all this talk about the Romney folks, or the "Establishment" not doing anything for turnout isn't true. It just hard to compete with Fanaticism.

Also, they knew about Rule 5.2!!  Always good to have a fallback plan....

Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro

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by: Paul R. Ferro @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 03:47:26 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Fanatacism? (0.00 / 0)

How about a complete lack of enthusiasm for Romney, as witnessed all across the country for as long as anyone provided an alternative.  Forcing Romney down our throat is beginning to taste like what they did with Obamacare, as in, who cares, this is what we want.

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by: Term Limits @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 14:27:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

So if Romeny is winning (5.00 / 1)

and people are not enthusiastic about him, what does that make Paul, who has yet to win a statewide primary or caucus yet?  

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez

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by: Jefferson Nix @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 15:57:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm saying that in the context of (0.00 / 0)

the establishment GOP is really failing the party.

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by: Term Limits @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 17:48:28 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

So... (0.00 / 0)

The "establishment" GOP is failing the party by supporting a candidate that received over 260,000 votes in Massachusetts over a candidate that received 35,000?

Just want to make sure I understand what you are saying.

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez

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by: Jefferson Nix @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 18:31:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wrong again Ed. (0.00 / 0)

Ed I love you, but you got it wrong. You don't disenfranchise duly elected delegates.

The Romney people and the MA-GOP screwed up. The delegates would have voted for Romney on the first ballot and if Romney gets his 1144 delegates it's a mute point.

He can't pull this crap in other states. This is MA-GOP by-law, not an RNC By-law as I understand it.

He could afford to do it in Massachusetts because he isn't planning on winning Massachusetts. So he doesn't care diddly squat if Republican turn out is suppressed.

Again in Massachusetts we have the top of the Republican ticket screwing the down ticket candidates.(There's good  joke in there somewhere but I'll refrain.  A rare moment of decorum on my part) However, this time they didn't just stick it to the guys running for Congress, Beacon Hill, Sheriff, or County Bean Counter, the MA-GOP just jeopardized our incumbent Senator, the Honorable Scott Brown! Hello!!

Let us pray this does not come to pass. But if it does we will have the consolation of knowing the Charlie Baker, who lost the  governors race and brought down Karyn Polito and Mary Z in process, was a delegate at RNC National Convention in Tampa. Whoopee!!!
They couldn't have asked any number of newly elected loyal state committee members. They couldn't have asked a guy like Bill McCarthy who has been around a while, but dared to challenge Jennifer Nassour.   Nah that would have been an olive branch and while olives make for great oil, they make lousy hubris!

Again, I pray this doesn't suppress Republican turnout on November 6th. If we loose this Senate seat because of a low GOP turnout we'll know who to blame.
 

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by: John DiMascio @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 05:09:25 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I agree with some of this (0.00 / 0)

John -

First, I put the blame entirely on the party. This should never have occurred. Perhaps the "establishment" might have even invited in newer people to be on their slate. Or they should have brought in more of their voters.

But they were weak and planned poorly, and got this as a reward. I agree with Paul that perhaps it wasn't realistic to compete with the enthusiasm of the Paul people. But we could do a whole lot better on our own enthusiasm.

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by: edfactor @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 12:54:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I Was Told (5.00 / 2)

   Go! This is the slate you should vote for!
  Well, not knowing two of the alternates at all, and seriously disliking a delegate candidate, I stayed home!
  I guess its true. I don't play well with others.

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by: billxi @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 19:30:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Suppressed? (0.00 / 0)

It will -- because many of us working at the local level are sick and tired of being ignored and abused by the party elite.  You cannot pull this kind of crap and expect that repercussion will not come.  Get ready for a really pissed off group of Republicans to stay home during election day.

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by: Kestrel @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 00:03:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

It's sad it comes to this (5.00 / 1)

But the delegate are pledged for Mitt Romney. I still don't understand how then you can fill those delegates with people that don't support Mitt Romney. It would be one thing if they supported a candidate that has since dropped out/released their delegates, but they support the only other candidate in the race!
The Ron Paul folks tried every rule in the book to win delegates. These were the rules, and I hope everything going forward, as it has so far, is by the book, but you can't now yell at the Romney folks for doing this. These are the rules!

And I fully blame the MassGOP for this. The rules governing the selection of delegates to the National Convention are foolish. Why do we even have a primary, if the mandate given by hundreds of thousands of voters can be overturned by small groups of a few hundred rapid folks? I didn't even know we had caucuses until the week before, and I couldn't commit myself to an almost all-day process on a Saturday. It seems to me if Romney won a primary with many times over, more voters, he should get a say in who represents him. While some states in fact do follow the primary then caucus routine, I don't really get the point, and it can only lead to abuse. Why can't we be like NH where the candidate give a list of their delegates, or like PA/IL where the primary voters select the delegates themselves. That way, this sort of intraparty argument (which I am getting very tired of these) could never happen, and more Republicans are knowingly brought into the process!

As a result, weeks after our important primary, in a race the national media has all declared but over, without any real notification to the working folks (not the little nerds that follow every party activity) that we even have caucuses, the caucuses can be bamboozled by a group of voters that don't even support the primary winner. Yes, I know some of them have come around to Romney, great! I hope there is some way to weed them out from those who don't, but these delegates are Romney's. You cannot argue with that.

(R)- Outside 495

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by: MerrimackMan @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 04:40:05 AM UTC

They Played by the Rules (0.00 / 0)

This process is exactly the way the current elite in the party took control and maintained control.  They have spent years imposing their will on the majority of Republicans and creating an atmosphere of apathy.  This is why in the past the turnout for the delegate election was so lightly attended.  The insiders had all the advantages and made sure that their candidates were the only ones seriously running.  If you were not part of the clique then you can forget about being select as a delegate.  Their problem is that they were so arrogant as to think a dedicated group of activist would not be organized enough to confront them. Now they resort rule bending after the fact to fix the situation.. which has nothing really to do with who was selected to be a delegate (Ron Paul supporters or Romney supporters).  They plan on replacing all the delegates that are not their hand pick insider group.  This is about ego and hubris thing.  They have now demonstrated to all in the Republican Party that the little people and grass roots Republicans are to be used and ignored. Whether the delegate elected is a Romney supporter or Ron Paul supporter by law they must cast their ballot for Romney...so it make little difference at the convention.

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by: Kestrel @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 00:22:53 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Why did we even have the caucuses then? (5.00 / 4)

I'm glad I wasted time away from my family to spend 6 hours at a caucus that doesn't matter who won the election for delegates and alternates.
The Mass GOP establishment sets rules, then loses by their rules and then changes the rules.
Classic small minded mentality, I'm taking my ball and going home if I can't win.  

Edfactor, this is tough medicine, what the hell does that mean?  You lose a fair election, you don't like the results so you piss off a whole group of activists, who followed the rules?  To the victor goes the spoils but I guess our Republican party is just as bad to the Democrats crying that life isn't fair, and they get their way anyways.

I didn't vote for the Liberty slate and I didn't vote for the Romney slate, I went and voted for the people who made the best case for voting for them to be the delegates from my congressional district.

We have control of nothing in this state, the Mass GOP establishment didn't increase the numbers of GOP state house reps the local activists did.

I was really impressed by the Liberty Slate folks organization I wish they ran the Mass GOP. Imagine what we could accomplish.

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by: HalifaxRepublican @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 04:41:47 AM UTC

I too voted for people who were in neither slate. (0.00 / 0)

I'm wondering if they had won, would the Romney camp have tried to bounce those people in order to install his slate?

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"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

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by: Patrick @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 17:43:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Tonight on the news: Run on Tin Foil (0.00 / 1)

Well I did express that this was going to happen last Saturday as well.

The key issue is that unlike other candidates or previous years, the Ron Paul campaign is making a deliberate attempt to undermine and steal the nomination by either having supporters abstain or downright vote for Paul on the first ballot, rules be damned.

There are going to be a lot of people upset. In the end, it's MASSGOP's fault for piss poor planning on the caucuses in the first place that gets us to this point.

That being said, it was inevitable that the Romney camp wasn't going to get upstaged by those with loyalties to another candidate while supporters who actually worked to get him elected, campaigning through the winter months, sat at home while people who actively worked (and continued to work according to the Paul plan) to defeat him, went to Tampa.

There will be collateral damage because of this though, I can guarantee it.

Rob may even go off and found Gold Mass Group after this....

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez

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by: Jefferson Nix @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 05:12:35 AM UTC

By Law (0.00 / 0)

By Law they are required to vote for Romney on the first ballot and all the liberty delegates have sworn to do that.  If Romney cannot get enough delegates to win the first ballot -- then he does not deserve to win because he did demonstrate that he had the kind of consensus among Republicans to win the election.  If he cannot do that then that is why we have a convention and sometimes select a different candidate. It is up to Romney to convince the delegates that he is the man for the job and he can beat Obama. Though I would love to see a Republican win in November -- I am beginning to have my doubts that we can accomplish that goal.  The MASSGOP actions will create plenty of collateral damage not only in this State but, in others as the word gets out about their action.

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by: Kestrel @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 00:38:36 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Glad I Didn't Waste My Time Going to the Caucuses (0.00 / 0)

This whole thing leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.  It's just like the time that the state party booted all of the delegates that were not sufficiently pro-abortion to suit Weld's tastes.

I'm glad I didn't waste my time going to the caucuses.

I am glad that I am no longer wasting my time with the MassGOP.  As MerrimackMan said, it only frustrates you further.

 

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by: yankeepundit @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 11:41:21 AM UTC

Just Another ... (0.00 / 0)

Just another reason I would never support this a*shat.
Romeny and his clan have no clue what republicanism even is.

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by: nomad943 @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 12:49:26 PM UTC

Waste of a Day (5.00 / 1)

So I wasted an entire day participating in the 6th District Caucus?  A few people at the top of the party will decide unilaterally who is qualified?  They have decided to ignore the results a democratic election process and disqualify the elected delegates?  Whether you are a Romney supporter or a Paul supporter this action should cause you great concern.  This is not the first time Romney has dictated to the grass roots - When he ran for Governor the grass roots wanted Jim Rappaport for Lt. Governor.  Instead, we were force accept Kerry Healey - who ended up to be a weak candidate for governor when Romney bailed to run for president.  This just proves that the Republican Party was taken over and run by the country club elites.  What this delegate election process demonstrates to me is that Romney's position and strength is extremely weak and lacks serious grass roots support - and this little shenanigan he is pulling will only further erode support amongst the grass roots republican.  It now is apparent to me that unless Obama steps on it big time Romney may not win this election.  

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by: Kestrel @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 13:45:35 PM UTC

The End (5.00 / 1)

This is the end of the Republican Party in Mass  

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by: Kestrel @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 13:49:14 PM UTC

Just Cause (0.00 / 0)

What is the definition of Just Cause

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by: Kestrel @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 13:50:58 PM UTC

The example given ... (2.00 / 1)

By the author of the "just cause" provision was if a person was a known "sign waving supporter" of another candidate.  So the Liberty slate being known Ron Paul supporters (and let's be honest, no one with a straight face is going to argue that Liberty Slate candidates aren't Ron Paul supporters) is  "just cause" enough.

That being said "just cause" is whatever a majority of the Allocation committee decides it is.

Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro

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by: Paul R. Ferro @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 15:57:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

That's a weak premise for just cause (5.00 / 4)

Basically that means if an individual supports a candidate and they lose in the state primary, that individual forfeits the right to become a delegate???

That's absurd and wildly un-democratic.

If the Mass GOP goes through with this, it effectively denies me as a registered republican, any input to what planks make up the platform at the convention as well any input to who makes up the State Party structure.

This is deeply troubling.  Every Republican in this state should be concerned over this.

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by: DM Gregor @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 17:50:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Count your blessings... (0.00 / 0)

...that there even IS a "Just cause" provision.

In 2000, they just threw us out, and gave no reason.

Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro

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by: Paul R. Ferro @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 09:36:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yeah, now they have to take the time to male up pious lies, too! (0.00 / 0)

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Mon May 07, 2012 at 04:40:20 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Spoke to someone a few days ago that said this had happened before. (0.00 / 0)

In 2008 they tried to decertify the Ron Paul people but the National GOP slapped them for it and gave the impression that if the state GOP did something like this again that they would not seat any MA delegates at the Convention.  Anyone know more about this?

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"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

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by: Patrick @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 16:09:31 PM UTC

Didn't happen (5.00 / 1)

There was no effort to decertify Ron Paul people in 2008.  I served on the Delegate Allocation Committee and no such challenges came before us.

Perhaps there was some talk of it, rumors, or even an aborted attempt but it never actually came before us.

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by: BNCordeiro @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 00:24:52 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

that is false (0.00 / 0)

I have the mintes and posted one such case.

Full Disclosure


http://www.redmassgroup.com/pr...

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by: Rob "EaBo Clipper" Eno @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 00:31:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Show me (0.00 / 0)

Show me the minutes.  I had a Ron Paul alternate from my town go in 2008.  No Ron Pauler was denied in 2008 and I do not recall a single challenge based upon anyone simply being a Ron Paul supporter.

We had plenty of challeges due to registration issues.  Those were all resolved with the caucused person being approved.

The one exception may be one referenced the other day by Cynthia Stead who failed to show.

Better yet, why is Ferro referring to rumors things heard about when you're supposedly sitting on the minutes.  Here's a good idea, actually post facts not rumors.  I'll grant you I may have forgotten minor details 4 year ago, but please show me the reference if you've already posted it.  I'm not arguging that you're even wrong but the degree of seperation between you & Paul is so slight that there's no need for him to question when you seem able to provide him with the referenced facts

I've found much posted lately is...less than 100% accurate.  For example, it's Christine Cedrone who replaced Nancy Luther and Ed McGrath is the new chair of the Delegate Allocatin Commission.

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by: BNCordeiro @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 00:44:43 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Take 2 (0.00 / 0)

That probably sounded crankier than I intended.  Comes with driving 2 days into Boston to watch the Sox lose.  One more game to go.

That said, on or off line I'm interested in seeing the minutes or any other evidence as my recollection differs but I'll defer to the evidence.

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by: BNCordeiro @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 01:20:11 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

If this fails can we all agree... (0.00 / 0)

That the Reagan Liberty delegates don't owe Romney a thing.  I've talked to a handful of those delegates and those that I spoke with were all going to vote for Romney.  After this?  I say they should do what they want.

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"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

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by: Patrick @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 16:20:54 PM UTC

This is an outrageous abuse of power (4.50 / 2)

There were democratic elections. Candidates for delegates encouraged supporters to attend, made their pitches, and stood for election.  The people voted.  How dare the party officials overturn a fair vote by registered Republicans?

I do not support Rep. Paul.  I did not vote for any of the liberty slate candidates.  I actually supported most of the Romney slate.  Now I hear that I wasted a Saturday, because the party presumed a vote for the Romney slate.  What is this, Hussein-era Iraq?  Venezuela?  I think the disenfranchisement of Republican voters will do long-term damage to the party organization and Romney.  

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by: Bravehaht @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 20:22:06 PM UTC

It's not even as if the Romney slate placed 4,5,6 (0.00 / 0)

At my caucus I'm pretty sure that that while the Reagan Liberty people were 1,2,3, the Romney slate did not fully occupy 4,5,6.  Why should these slate people be delegates when some didn't even come close to winning even if the Reagan Liberty people hadn't been there?

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"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

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by: Patrick @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 20:39:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Answer: they shouldn't (0.00 / 0)

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by: Bravehaht @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 23:07:38 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

This is wrong. (4.50 / 2)

My name is Anthony Ellis, and I am a Republican voter from the 8th congressional district. I attended the caucus on April 28 and casted my vote for the Ronald Reagan Liberty Slate. Although the Romney delegates won in a close election, there are still nine provisional ballots which have yet to be counted. If those provisional ballots aren't counted and the will of the people is denied by red tape, then that means that the MassGOP is a complete and utter joke which does not care about its members and their wishes. I demand that the provisional ballots in each and every district are counted, provided that the people who cast the votes in the caucuses were in fact registered Republicans by 2/15/12, and I demand that we are not disenfranchised. It is NOT my fault that Romney has such tepid support that he couldn't even get out enough supporters to win the caucuses. Besides, the delegates are bound to Romney anyway! What is the problem?

And the MassGOP wonders why only 1 out of 10 registered voters in this state are registered Republicans...maybe they should stop these tactics and stop disenfranchising people.

Another thing: Obama is looking at what Romney is doing, to ensure that his friends go to Tampa rather than the people who were duly elected in a fair and honest caucus...if the GOP doesn't want to deal with the fallout, I strongly suggest they stop cheating.

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by: Anthony Ellis @ Sat May 05, 2012 at 23:22:51 PM UTC

i told you so? (2.00 / 1)

wow fraud real classy MASSGOP.

   

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by: tommyrp12 @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 00:54:47 AM UTC

Where's the Fraud? (0.00 / 0)

Back your claim up.

Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro

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by: Paul R. Ferro @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 09:34:27 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

certainly (0.00 / 0)

 
perhaps it may be leagle but its still deceitfull and its disenfranchised the people who cared enough to participate and wanted to change the country for the better.  

what is the point of the election if your gonna go behind everyones back and choose the guy you want?

this is my first year as a republican,and im being disenfranchised by my own party.great.

but do you really think anyone cares about romney,he's better suited selling used cars.

besides you honestley cant tell O or M apart and if you dont know how trully unviable romney is and how he cant even handle simple questions from the media,and to show how hes going to be left in the dust in the general and lose to obama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

and then there is this man honest to the core and didnt run to france in nam,and had 2 kids and a wife and still volinteered in the air force in nam, ran a medical practice and delivered over 4000 babies, never voted to raise taxes, never voted for a unconstitutional bill, wants to reapeal many of the unconstitutional ammendments and XO's abolish the IRS, end the FED ,he understands every minutia of our economic system and knows what it its going to take to get out of debt,using "real money" gold and silver as compitition to the dollar and see that the power rests with the people as the constitution dictates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

facisim and tolitarian rule should be put in the past where it belongs freedom is new and its what we have to fight for, theres no more continents to run to,to start over.  

so just know if paul loses we all lose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

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by: tommyrp12 @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 17:01:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Do you really know Ron Paul? (0.00 / 0)

Or do you think Eric Dondero, his staffer of 16 years knows him better?

Fmr. Senior Aide, US Cong. Ron Paul, 1997 - 2003
Campaign Coordinator, Ron Paul for Congress, 1995/96
National Organizer, Draft Ron Paul for President, 1991/92
Travel Aide/Personal Asst. Ron Paul, Libertarian for President
1987/88

(Paul) is however, most certainly Anti-Israel, and Anti-Israeli in general. He wishes the Israeli state did not exist at all. He expressed this to me numerous times in our private conversations. His view is that Israel is more trouble than it is worth, specifically to the America taxpayer. He sides with the Palestinians, and supports their calls for the abolishment of the Jewish state, and the return of Israel, all of it, to the Arabs.

(Paul)strenuously does not believe the United States had any business getting involved in fighting Hitler in WWII. He expressed to me countless times, that "saving the Jews," was absolutely none of our business. When pressed, he often times brings up conspiracy theories like FDR knew about the attacks of Pearl Harbor weeks before hand, or that WWII was just "blowback," for Woodrow Wilson's foreign policy errors, and such.

I would challenge him, like for example, what about the instances of German U-boats attacking U.S. ships, or even landing on the coast of North Carolina or Long Island, NY. He'd finally concede that that and only that was reason enough to counter-attack against the Nazis, not any humanitarian causes like preventing the Holocaust.

Good to know Ron Paul was ok with genocide against millions of people.

(Paul) engaged in conspiracy theories including perhaps the attacks were coordinated with the CIA, and that the Bush administration might have known about the attacks ahead of time. He expressed no sympathies whatsoever for those who died on 9/11, and pretty much forbade us staffers from engaging in any sort of memorial expressions, or openly asserting pro-military statements in support of the Bush administration.

http://rightwingnews.com/elect...

Yes, this sounds like just the guy who can win the hearts and minds of millions of Americans and beat Barack Obama.

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez

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by: Jefferson Nix @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 18:44:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

hes leagley correct, and what is wrong with peice? (0.00 / 0)

he is for ending aid to all countries,not just isreal,and when does leaving isreal to be a indipendant state harm it?im sure they are completley compitent to run it themselves.

he actually raises the point many times that,world war two was the last time we had a constitutional war declaired by congress before afghanistan and he signed that decleration also. he also didnt dodge the draft and run to france he's seen what war does, i know he isnt a passifict he just beleives the law of the land and that states that congress needs to declair war and only if we are attacked.
ithink the foreing policy of policing the world is going to drive us deeper into debt and making enimies faster than we can handle he knows that and so do the people that fight those wars thats why he gets the most donations of all the cannidates combined from all the branches of the military thats not including vets who constantley rally in his name and the name of all the fallen incluing the mass suicides by our troops for doing 8 tours,you wounder why they bug out its probabley like facing 8 death sentences all in the name of fighting the indiginous people of those countries, how would you feel if china had bases here and called us terrorist?
hes only following the law that our founders wrote for a reason it promotes peace and maintains our freedom.the two hand picked suites,want the opposite.

yes he is winning the hearts and minds of millions,why do you think people are even registering republican and he gets more support from indies and dems than romney.

barry and mitt are funded by the exact same people,again wheres the change in policy welfare vs warfare?they are both determined to run this country into the ground,as you can see in the video's they endorse the same programs just to keep us debt slaves to the banks.

if those guys remain in power you can rest assured the collapse of the dollar and abandonment of the petro dollar from other countries will happen.what are we supposed to do then ? you can forget jobs, what are they gonna pay you with? usless paper? and this is pretty basic economics that when the more the money supply increases the purchasing power goes down,even if you have dollars in your safe they are still worth less,your getting robbed by the government,and if you also havent noticed that they are not slowing those printing presses,and the people who are hurt the most are the ones who are on fixed incomes when they have to make drastic choices when their money goes less and less further.  

the government that gives is also the government thats takes away,they cannot offer paul anything without taking from peter.their job is to protect liberty and protect property,not police the world,not rob tax payers to keep banks liquid,or prop up indistry every time they fail when it does this it must violate somones liberty or property.

the government by frederic basiat,a french economist who pointed out every fault of socialisim perpitraded by the french government during the revolution in 1848.  

http://bastiat.org/en/governme...
"Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."

"I wish some one would offer a prize for a good, simple, and intelligent definition of the word "Government."
What an immense service it would confer on society !

The Government! what is it? where is it? what does it do? what ought it to do? All we know is, that it is a mysterious personage; and, assuredly, it is the most solicited, the most tormented, the most overwhelmed, the most admired, the most accused, the most invoked, and the most provoked of any personage in the world.

I have not the pleasure of knowing my reader but I would stake ten to one that for six months he has been making Utopias, and if so, that he is looking to Government for the realization of them.

And should the reader happen to be a lady: I have no doubt that she is sincerely desirous of seeing all the evils of suffering humanity remedied, and that she thinks this might easily be done, if Government would only undertake it.

But, alas! that poor unfortunate personage, like Figaro, knows not to whom to listen, nor where to turn. The hundred thousand mouths of the press and of the platform cry out all at once -

"Organize labor and workmen."
"Repress insolence and the tyranny of capital."
"Make experiments upon manure and eggs."
"Cover the country with railways."
"Irrigate the plains."
"Plant the hills."
"Make model farms."
"Found social workshops."
"Nurture children."
"Instruct the youth."
"Assist the aged."
"Send the inhabitants of towns into the country."
"Equalize the profits of all trades."
"Lend money without interest to all who wish to borrow."
"Emancipate oppressed people everywhere."
"Rear and perfect the saddle-horse."
"Encourage the arts, and provide us musicians, painters, and architects."
"Restrict commerce, and at the same time create a merchant navy."
"Discover truth, and put a grain of reason into our heads. The mission of Government is to enlighten, to develop, to extend, to fortify, to spiritualize, and to sanctify the soul of the people."

"Do have a little patience, gentlemen" says Government, in a beseeching tone. "I will do what I can to satisfy you, but for this I must have resources. I have been preparing plans for five or six taxes, which are quite new, and not at all oppressive. You will see how willingly people will pay them."

Then comes a great exclamation: - "No! indeed! where is the merit of doing a thing with resources? Why, it does not deserve the name of a Government!

So far from loading us with fresh taxes, we would have you withdraw the old ones. You ought to suppress
"The tobacco tax."
"The tax on liquors."
"The tax on letters."
"Custom-house duties."
"Patents."

In the midst of this tumult, and now that the country has again and again changed the administration, for not having satisfied all its demands, I wanted to show that they were contradictory. But, what could I have been thinking about? Could I not keep this unfortunate observation to myself!

I have lost my character forever! I am looked upon as a man without heart and without feeling - a dry philosopher, an individualist, a plebeian - in a word, an economist of the practical school. But, pardon me, sublime writers, who stop at nothing, not even at contradictions. I am wrong, without a doubt, and I would willingly retract. I should be glad enough, you may be sure, if you had really discovered a beneficent and inexhaustible being, calling itself the Government, which has bread for all mouths, work for all hands, capital for all enterprises, credit for all projects, oil for all wounds, balm for all sufferings, advice for all perplexities, solutions for all doubts, truths for all intellects, diversions for all who want them, milk for infancy, and wine for old age - which can provide for all our wants, satisfy all our curiosity, correct all our errors, repair all our faults, and exempt us henceforth from the necessity for foresight, prudence, judgment, sagacity, experience, order, economy, temperance, and activity.

What reason could I have for not desiring to see such a discovery made? Indeed, the more I reflect upon it, the more do I see that nothing could be more convenient than that we should all of us have within our reach an inexhaustible source of wealth and enlightenment - a universal physician, an unlimited treasure, and an infallible counselor, such as you describe Government to be. Therefore it is that I want to have it pointed out and defined, and that a prize should be offered to the first discoverer of the phoenix. For no one would think of asserting that this precious discovery has yet been made, since up to this time everything presenting itself under the name of the Government has at some time been overturned by the people, precisely because it does not fulfill the rather contradictory conditions of the programme.

I will venture to say that I fear we are, in this respect, the dupes of one of the strangest illusions which have ever taken possession of the human mind."

 

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by: tommyrp12 @ Mon May 07, 2012 at 04:25:20 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

video (0.00 / 0)

in this video of the nevada gop ron paul gives a speech,you can clearley see about 90% of the room standing even romney supporters,  around the 18:00 mark.

http://ronpaulflix.com/2012/05...

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by: tommyrp12 @ Mon May 07, 2012 at 05:16:03 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well at least it's easy to discern which part of your post you wrote... (0.00 / 1)

As for Ron Paul on Israel:

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez

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by: Jefferson Nix @ Mon May 07, 2012 at 11:15:29 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

....... (0.00 / 0)

 Ad hominem attacks on me or dr paul is usless,thats all you have is cartoon news paper drawing,i guess theres no need to go looking up the facts.

you cannot blame him for upholding his oath(to the constitution the law of our land) of office to THIS country.

the idea that your trying to link racisim as the basis for his philosophy and comments in general is laughable,since he dilivered mixed race babies in the south in the 70's when many other doctors refused, and provided free care or at discount to the underprivliged and minority class,
http://www.sherrypeeljackson.org/

so your argument is completley invalid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

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by: tommyrp12 @ Mon May 07, 2012 at 17:02:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Seriously (0.00 / 0)

Stop writing until you get a spell checker, download Firefox, or something!

Your comments on this post hurt my eyes when I read them.

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez

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by: Jefferson Nix @ Mon May 07, 2012 at 18:26:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

It's also (0.00 / 1)

not an ad hominem attack when you use the person's own words in context!

http://thenewcivilrightsmoveme...

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez

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by: Jefferson Nix @ Mon May 07, 2012 at 18:43:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

........... (0.00 / 0)

thats the thing, they are not in context.the letter or the drawing ,because it does not expand on how he is indeed just following the letter of the law with respect to the constitution in his views.
also his personal views have NOTHING to do with government,he has a job and knows what it is,and its not to impose personal views in the office.
he also states his personal views only determine how he treats other people morally,and every single example he has stayed true to his words.
i know how desperatley your arguments need the shading of ron paul as a racist but his words from his own mouth on every single interview he's done has spoken to the contrary, and espeacially his actions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

now unless you have PROOF ,then its ALL assertion and out of context.

not that the race card even matters to them the only people bringing it up is the media and the GOP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

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by: tommyrp12 @ Mon May 07, 2012 at 23:05:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

MassGOP is giving the election to Obama. (0.00 / 0)

How else can you explain this blatant attempt to take away the results of an official and fair election? This is outrageous. I did not go to that caucus just to see the results reversed because MassGOP didn't like them. And, why should they like or dislike them? They aren't working with the Romney campaign...right? They aren't supposed to be, anyway.

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by: Anthony Ellis @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 02:28:04 AM UTC

Very Disappointing (0.00 / 0)

It does not help Romney for him to be seen as trying to purge a majority of his own democratically elected delegates in his own state.  I hope the campaign rethinks this.

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by: Couves @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 04:15:14 AM UTC

Why stuffing the convention floor with half dead people? (0.00 / 0)

There was no energy at all from the Romney supporters so we can at least breath some life into the process and hang our heads high when we cast our first votes for the White Messiah.

Yes, there are talk about abstaining and such but that's just stupidity because we learn more and more about the political process and come to respect it.  We'd rather lose and let that reflect badly on the status quo than win the way the establishment are doing.

Plus we're very independent so the overall rate of protest non-votes wouldn't be significant, if any.

We are mostly young and poor but we are committed to peaceful means of steering this ship toward its proper course so please open the provisional ballots and certify the delegates.  We are the conservative people of MA, probably the smartest state in the nation and we should do things that reflect that impression.  Face it, nobody wants the title of Charlie Webster of MA at all because we're going to talk about it and we do talk a lot.  The list of GOP establishment executioners are long and growing.  Don't add your name to the ranks of Eugene Dokes and Vincent Reda, etc.

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by: Chan McCao @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 06:49:15 AM UTC

I wouldn't call other people half dead... (0.00 / 1)

when you're preferred candidate is as old and fragile looking as Paul...

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
-Gabriel Gomez

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by: Jefferson Nix @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 16:13:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Any info on why Nancy Luther quit? (0.00 / 0)

It sounds odd that she reserved her judgment up to Primary day.  I think I like that.  :)

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by: Chan McCao @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 11:08:41 AM UTC

GOP loses! (4.00 / 1)

I was at the 3rd district. If GOP does this, they won't survive court challenge. And I will never vote for Mittens EVER, even if Obama was Hitler in disguise! How could any person of integrity vote for someone who would so blatantly violate basic rules of our Republic!! Learn a lesson GOP! Embrace the army which is willing to fight for your principles or lose & become totally irrelevant in MA! BTW, I am one of those "regular" GOP people who embraces liberty over all else!! Thank God for the youth of our country, willing to fight the good fight!

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by: MaryB @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 11:59:26 AM UTC

Mary - a court challenge was threatened 4 years ago, too. (0.00 / 0)

Here's the thing.  This isn't a matter of LAW, but BYLAW.  There is no legal issue to sue over.  If the GOP says all delegates must have red hair, they can do it and brunettes have no standing to sue.

The caucus is not a PUBLIC election, but a PARTISAN election.  

Every time I listen to people rant about how they are taking over, then they don't even know the procedure - it just makes me shake my head.

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Mon May 07, 2012 at 04:36:16 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Good luck GOP! (3.33 / 3)

I actually ran for delegate under the Liberty slate in district 8. I tried to play their game and appeal to them based on (what I thought) were our commonalities. As a veteran I ran on that, along with how we must oust Obama. I got the least amount of votes of all 6 delegates that were running for the 3 spots..... As a veteran and someone who considered himself classic republican, they cast me aside like a tool that was no longer useful.
After they forcefully adjourned the caucus. I made it clear (yelled out) that they better be careful or their precious party will end up going the way of the Whigs.
With that whole fiasco, along with this. The Republican party/GOP has now lost an ally and gained an enemy all at once.  
This is why they are so weak here in "liberal" MA, despite the constant shenanigans of the democrats. They are digging their own grave with their corrupt totalitarian collectivist ways. And unless they pull a liberty rabbit out of their statist hat soon, I'll be the one with the shovel on top filling that grave in with them still in it.
Now you can look for me running against you hacks on the libertarian ticket, establishment. Or I'll be watching you destroy yourself for far away. Peace!

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by: NTanz @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 15:02:34 PM UTC

Hey, (5.00 / 1)

I voted for you, buddy. Don't worry, they won't disenfranchise us. They aren't that stupid.

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by: Anthony Ellis @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 17:30:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Re: Hey (5.00 / 1)

No, but they are that arrogant and fearful of losing their meal-ticket. Thanks for your support though Anthony. With the exception of supporting Scott Brown, I was completely sincere and meant everything I said up there.

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by: NTanz @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 18:53:40 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

No problem! (5.00 / 1)

No problem buddy. As Pat Robertson and his followers did in 1988, we will have a significant influence on the GOP in years to come. We're slowly but surely BECOMING the thing that we abhor - the GOP establishment, by taking over state committees and so forth.

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by: Anthony Ellis @ Sun May 06, 2012 at 19:07:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

WOW - All I can say is WOW (0.00 / 0)

I'd just like to point out that the Soc Cons are totally minding their own business.  We're just kinda hanging out, watching a little baseball on tv.  Not fighting with anyone ... just acting chill.  

Molon Labe

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Mon May 07, 2012 at 14:21:53 PM UTC