Massachusetts Drivers to pay $148/year miles tax for Medford and Somerville to get a trolley?

A). What's wrong with (0.00 / 0)

the many bus lines that service those areas?
2). Some how my odometer just stopped working.  I have no clue what's wrong with it.  I'm a protein chemist, not a mechanic.  The State also put a non-functioning tracking device on my car....no idea what's wrong with it.

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 03:38:31 AM UTC

Original photo idea (0.00 / 0)

I didn't go with this in the main story, but thought you may like it.

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by: Rob "EaBo Clipper" Eno @ Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 03:55:12 AM UTC

A perfectly typical liberal idea - full of flaws. (0.00 / 0)

I heard about this yesterday and immediately many troublesome questions came to mind.

1. How do they know the miles I travel are in-state?  If not in state can they legally tax/charge me for miles I travel out of state?  What right has the state of MA to tax, or charge, me for miles I travel out of state?

2. How do they apply this to vehicles from out of state?  Or do all NH, RI, ME travelers get to ride on our roads without a penny per mile tax?

3. I thought liberals did not like regressive taxes - and this is surely one of them.

4. Does Deval Patrick have to pay the tax, or do the taxpayers pay as he has a state funded limo drive him to work?  

5. Get ready for an increase in fares from school bus services, taxi cabs, UPS and Fedex, and any other working class company that uses the roads in Massachusetts.  They did think of this, didn't they?

6. Do they charge a penny per mile for roads on which we currently pay a toll?  In other words, when I use the Mass Pike, will I pay the toll and the penny per mile fee as well?  This means that some poor slob in western MA has to pay twice for roads AND subway extensions they will never use.  I thought Deval Patrick was the Governor of the whole state?  Seems he is f*cking over the western half of MA.

7. Is there anything about my car the liberals in state gov't won't tax?  Excise tax, sales tax, gas tax, toll roads, taxes on top of taxes on top of taxes.  

Ed Markey is now the official 'cheapest' man on earth.  1.5 percent to charity while the average American gave 3 times as much...

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by: Vote3rdpartynow @ Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 16:21:09 PM UTC

Those numbers seem off. (0.00 / 0)

Harvard to Union isn't a 15-20 minute walk.  Google puts it at 27 minutes.  Even that is optimistic, I think.
https://www.google.com/maps?sa...

Also, walking a 1.3 miles in the rain or snow could slow a person down a tad too.

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"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

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by: Patrick @ Sat Apr 06, 2013 at 18:44:35 PM UTC

right (0.00 / 0)

"There are only two stations" not within a 15-20 min walk...  union is one of them.  Although it is closer to central than harvard

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by: Rob "EaBo Clipper" Eno @ Sat Apr 06, 2013 at 21:29:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

From Central isn't either. (0.00 / 0)

Google lists it as 24 minutes, but if you actually walk it is worse than from Harvard because you cross 3 heavily trafficked streets on the way there (Broadway, Hampshire, Cambridge).
https://www.google.com/maps?sa...

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"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

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by: Patrick @ Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 00:11:37 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

so they can take a bus (0.00 / 0)

I mentioned that in my original post. Gilmore and union are not within 20 mins.  All other stations are.  I also suggested putting two commuter rail stations, one at each.

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by: Rob "EaBo Clipper" Eno @ Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 00:25:52 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Faster to walk from Harvard than take the bus. (0.00 / 0)

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"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

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by: Patrick @ Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 01:06:28 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Bus/CR not appropriate (5.00 / 1)

The entire purpose of Rapid Transit is to relieve street congestion.  Buses do not do as much to relieve congestion as rail (on dedicated RoWs) do, because they're on those same streets.  That is why buses are not as useful for this as light/heavy rail (like the Green and Orange lines) are.

The commuter rail also has several problems for this use.  Foremost of all is the inflexibility of commuter rail travel.  Its supposed to be a way for people in outlying areas to get into the city for work, on a typical business schedule (something remotely resembling 9-5), in order to relieve congestion on the highways.  It is not for people making relatively short trips between Somerville and the rest of the colored line (Red, Green, Blue, Orange) areas, and vice versa, at varying points of the day.

Seriously, try to use the Commuter Rail to get out of the city to the outlying suburbs and back, rather than from the suburbs to the city and back.  The options to do so are incredibly limited.

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by: DominusNovus @ Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 17:45:08 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Problems on both ends (0.00 / 0)

Obviously, the per mile tax is incredibly onerous and will fall much more harshly on people such as myself, who work in sales.

However, the objections to the GLX in and of itself are not exactly correct.  First of all, the administration of the project is horrendous, that much goes without saying.  Its vastly over budget and behind schedule.  That said, the extension in and of itself is a worthwhile project.

First, the areas where the route is closest to the Orange Line are also the areas where the geography (in particular, I-93) most impede pedestrian traffic from reaching the Orange Line. Walking from Lechmere to Community College, for example, is not exactly practical, even though, as the crow flies, they're very close.

Second, your map quite accurately shows that there is a fairly large gap between the Orange and Red Lines.  This gap comprises a very large portion of Somerville.  The entire reason those concentric circles are useful is because they show, roughly, how far people are willing to walk to the train.  That some of the proposed stations are actually within reasonable walking distance of existing stations doesn't mean that the areas covered by the proposed stations are within walking distance of existing stations; in fact, they are not, as the map shows.

Third, take a look at the lower right corner where you'll see many many stations clumped together; if the map showed their radii, they'd all be overlapping like some mutant Venn Diagram.  And yet, those are the most heavily used stations in the entire system.  Now, true, Somerville is not downtown Boston.  It is, however, the most densely populated city in New England.

As for comparisons to the commuter rail, the green line simply provides a completely different service.  The commuter rail is for longer trips, on relatively infrequent schedules, and with higher fares.  The rapid transit lines are just that: rapid.  They're supposed to be relatively frequent and cheap.  You can't run a full locomotive train through Somerville nearly as often or cheaply as you can run a light rail line.

And the comparison to buses... buses get stuck in traffic, plain and simple.  Other than the sections of the Green line that run in-street, the rapid transit lines don't ever have to deal with traffic.  Plus, passengers simply feel safer on trains than buses.

Again, the project is being horribly mismanaged and needs some serious shaking up.  But that doesn't mean that there's an inherent problem with expanding transit access to Somerville.  The worst part about all this, in my opinion, is that the bureaucrats are screwing this all up so badly, when it should be a comparatively easy project, that they won't be doing any of the other needed improvements to the system anytime soon.

This should be a very easy project, all things considered: Lay additional tracks along an existing right of way, run some overhead power lines, and build some stations.  There's almost no demolition work to be done (except by Lechmere), no lawns to cut through, no nothing.  The stations would seem to be the hardest part, except that they're building the Assembly Square station and Yawkey station very quickly and effectively.  Oh, and New Balance is getting started on a new station over in Brighton, for a very large complex they're working on.  And yet, the whole thing is going to run probably a decade plus behind.

Sorry if I went on for a bit there, but this is one of my pet topics.

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by: DominusNovus @ Sat Apr 06, 2013 at 21:17:48 PM UTC

Is asking if it is necessary the right question? (0.00 / 0)

I'm sure the same question was raised about extending the Red Line from Harvard to Alewife.  After all, the 77 bus and a few others probably covered most of the area along that route.  Looking at that extension today, is it really something you can imagine the MBTA being without?

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"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

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by: Patrick @ Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 00:23:59 AM UTC

Matter of fact... (0.00 / 0)

my car's odometer stopped working, the tracking chip in the inspection sticker is busted.....and my car joins the rest parked in driveways all around my MA town that are registered in NH.

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 03:50:02 AM UTC

Residents of the South Coast asked to pay for the T without access. (0.00 / 0)

Residents of the South Coast have no access to the T yet we are being forced to pay for it with our tax dollars. South Coast residents tax dollars should be allocated to pay for transportation  projects they can actually benefit from instead of being forced to pay for something we will never use.

"I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others" Anthem by Ayn Rand  

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by: kyllacon @ Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 16:01:20 PM UTC

From what (0.00 / 0)

I've read, apparently they're planning on full blown stations with turnstiles.  Is there a reason they can't just put in cheaper slabs of concrete like other above ground station to the west on the green line?

Certainty there's a way to get this done, but cheaper.  Right of Way isn't even an issue, which typically is the biggest hurdle and cost in these types of projects.

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by: Ryan @ Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 17:08:52 PM UTC

Ease of boarding (4.00 / 1)

Controlled access stations allow for much smoother boarding and disembarking.  When you can pay before you get on the train, you don't hold anyone up while paying while getting on the train.  Further, when people aren't paying on the train itself, then the operators don't have to police the passengers as they board, allowing them open all the doors in order to allow quicker disembarking and boarding.

The truly odious part of this project is that the costs keep going up and up and up, and there hasn't been any actual work done.  Its almost a parody of how things happen in MA.

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by: DominusNovus @ Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 17:50:01 PM UTC

[ Parent ]