Mike Barnicle Fail

2-0! (5.00 / 1)

I've never quite understood the criticism that soccer sucks because it is low scoring.  A goal in any real sport should be hard to attain.  If it isn't, then what's the point?

Hockey has low scores.  Baseball often has low scores.  If you normalize American football (touchdown = 1) then the scores aren't tremendous either.  If you tweak basketball and only count 3 pointers the score would be lower.

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by: Patrick @ Sat May 30, 2009 at 17:37:45 PM UTC

I think it's (0.00 / 0)

frequency of scores, rather than total, that is an issue. That is, with basketball you see a score every couple of minutes, at worst, as compared to soccer, where an hour or more can regularly pass.

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by: demredsox @ Sun May 31, 2009 at 00:31:02 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

That makes basketball extremely boring for me. (0.00 / 0)

In my opinion, the only exciting part of basketball is the last few minutes.

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by: Patrick @ Sun May 31, 2009 at 15:33:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Don't get me wrong (0.00 / 0)

Can't stand basketball. Just providing the rationale behind it.

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by: demredsox @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 00:41:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

High Scoring (0.00 / 0)

Honesty?  I hate watching a baseball game when its nothing but a pitchers duel.  Call me a product of the steroid fueled 90s but I prefer to see the balls flying out of the outfield (preferably in favor of the Old Towne Team).

Hence, soccer...which may be a very physical game of endurance & skill...bores the bloody Hell out of me.

I also think that part of the problem is that Americans tend to view it:

1) as a children's game (usually a girl's game).  For example, I made similar jokes yesterday at work when I was invited to attend my nieces' softball game (another "girl's game") their parents were at my God daughter's soccer game.  Might not be fair but perception is reality 'nuff said.

2) as a game of, well... foreigners, "the other," i.e. not me.  I look around Greater New Bedford and when it's not young girls playing soccer... it's someone supporting the Portuguese, Benfica, soccer team.  As such, perhaps soccer has a connotation of being an immigrants, and not Americans, game.  Sure, we have the New England Revolution (and I was stunned yesterday to hear WBSM 1420 AM carry a game on the radio yesterday evening) but all you ever hear about is foreign teams in foreign countries.

Now that he's retired, my father watches soccer on occasion (the son of Portuguese immigrants, who doesn't speak the language) but then again he goes redneck with NASCAR all the time, too (yet another "sport" that fails to hold my attention).  

Anyway, if you like soccer... enjoy!  It's the most popular sport in the world, and not just played by little girls, but it's not my cup of tea.  Then again, I only started going to hockey games (a total of 2) and well... I won't watch that on TV or actually pay for a ticket to see that either.    

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by: BNCordeiro @ Sun May 31, 2009 at 10:45:39 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'd like to agree with # 1 (0.00 / 1)

Soccer is definitely a children's game usually played by little girls.  

Soccer, Fail.

If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 17:16:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well to be honest Patrick (0.00 / 0)

Soccer sucks for many reasons, it's not just scooring.  


If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 17:51:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Soccer (0.00 / 0)

Soccer is a great sport.  It fosters and, at high levels, requires high levels of skill, teamwork, discipline, inventiveness, balance, coordination and athleticism.  It also requires a high level or practical rationality, because players have few opportunities to follow the coach's specific instructions; instead they must make good judgments based on their assessment of the conditions presented to them.  Soccer also provides fans with two 45-minute periods of commercial-free action in which the ball is almost always in play.  In addition, as the world's sport, soccer provides people of different nations and backgrounds an opportunity to come together in the context of healthy competition.      

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by: WestStillman @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 19:16:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

"It fosters and, at high levels, requires high levels of skill, teamwork, discipline, inventiveness, balance, coordination and athleticism." (0.00 / 1)

Which is why I think every little school girl in America should play it.  

If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 18:41:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not every little girl should play it. (0.00 / 0)

For example, some girls have health problems that could make it dangerous for them to play soccer.  But most little girls should play it.  Partly because it fosters that attributes I mentioned.  

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by: WestStillman @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 18:50:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

15,271 at Revolution-DC United tonight (3.00 / 3)

All of them are better writers than Barnicle.


"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

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by: Garrett Quinn @ Sun May 31, 2009 at 05:01:24 AM UTC

The stadium holds 68,000!!!! (0.00 / 0)

You goober!!!

Soccer sells less than 1/4th  the seats!!!  It's been a league for 13 years!!!

Soccer, FAIL!!!

"(He) is a Meathead"

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by: Paul R. Ferro @ Sun May 31, 2009 at 17:09:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

15,000 people doesn't sound like much Garrett. (0.00 / 1)

Soccer, Fail.

If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 17:26:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Soccer is already a fairly popular spectator sport in the U.S. (0.00 / 0)

Last year, the league Major League Soccer averaged about 16,500 fans per game over a 30 game regular-season.  There are currently 15 teams in MLS.  The league will grow to about 18 teams over the next two or three years.  So, MLS is reasonably popular.  

However, it is important not to equate the popularity of the league MLS with the popularity of soccer as a spectator sport in the U.S.  In addition, the English and Spanish-language telecasts of the 2006 World Cup Championship Final combined attracted an estimated 16.9 million American viewers, comparable to the average viewership of the 2005 World Series of Major League Baseball.  Here is a link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07...

Also, according to an article published on the federal government website America.gov, soccer is the fourth most watched sport in the U.S.  According to the article, "The world's most popular sport, commonly referred to as 'soccer' in America and 'football' everywhere else, is gaining a mass following in the United States.  It is already the fourth-most-watched sport in America."  Here is a link:

http://www.america.gov/st/spor...

Moreover, according to a Harris Poll conducted prior to the 2006 World Cup, nearly half of respondents expressed some interest in watching a game in the 2006 World Cup.  Here is a link:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...

In addition, there are 40 million Latinos living in the US.  That is 13% of the US population.  And soccer probably is the most popular spectator sport among Latinos living in the U.S.  For example, the 2007 Gold Cup final between the U.S. and Mexico got good TV ratings on the Spanish-language channel Telefutura, ones that were almost twice as high as the Stanley Cup final.  Also, a March 18, 2007 regular season match between two Mexican teams (Club America and Chivas) drew 4.3 million U.S. TV viewers, higher than all but one hockey match shown in the U.S. from 2005 to 2007. Moreover, the 2007 Gold Cup final between the U.S. and Mexico got good TV ratings on Univision.  6.3 million people watched the game on Univision during the second half.  That number is more than twice as high as the number of people who watched the decisive game of the Stanley Cup final in 2005.  

In addition, the 1999 Women's World Cup got good TV ratings and sold out large U.S. stadium, including  the 90,000 seat Rose Bowl in Pasadena, California.

Finally, a February World Cup qualifier between the U.S. and Mexico in Columbus, Ohio was sold out, and the game got good TV ratings.  It attracted 1.2 million viewers on ESPN2 and 10.7 million viewers on Univision, the Spanish-language network.    

A challenge for the league MLS is to convince more soccer fans in the U.S. to be fans of the league MLS.

In addition, soccer is a very popular participation sport in the U.S.  According to the Soccer Industry Council of America, soccer is the fourth most popular participation sport in the U.S. for all those younger than 18 and second only to basketball as a participation sport for those younger than 12. In addition, 4.2 million adults now play soccer, up 20 percent since 1992.  Moreover, my experience is that people who have played the game of soccer are more likely to be fans of the game as a spectator sport.  So, if MLS continues to progress, it can convince more of these people who have played the sport to attend MLS matches.  

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by: WestStillman @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 19:32:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Such (0.00 / 0)

a claim as the 4th "most watched" sport is.....define "most watched"...and define "sport".....and define medium.

"Most watched" as a professional sport?

NASCAR...that a "sport"?

Watched in person?
Watched on TV?

Do this study lump college sports with the pro-version?

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 20:18:24 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I don't know (0.00 / 0)

any more specifically what the author of the article (Paul Levitan) meant by "fourth-most-watched sport in America."  I also don't know for where he got his data.  But here is an excerpt from the article:

"The world's most popular sport, commonly referred to as 'soccer' in America and 'football' everywhere else, is gaining a mass following in the United States. It is already the fourth-most-watched sport in America."

Here is a link to the article:

http://www.america.gov/st/spor...

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by: WestStillman @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 00:00:32 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Smells fishy . ... (0.00 / 1)

So it goes NASCAR, Baseball, Football, then Soccer??????

I don't know????????


If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 13:28:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Why does it smell fishy? (0.00 / 0)

Please give reasons.  It helps advance the discussion.  

For the sake of argument, let's say that soccer is not the fourth-most-watched sport in the U.S.  Soccer is still a fairly popular spectator sport in the U.S., especially considering the number of Latinos living in the U.S.  Please see my first post in this thread.  

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by: WestStillman @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 18:38:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

"Please see my first post in this thread." (0.00 / 1)

I'm too busy ranting and overreacting.  

BWA BWA BWA BWA BWA MLS Soccer BWA BWA BWA BWA BWA  

If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 18:54:38 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Just how bad is that Attendance figure??? (0.00 / 0)

Every XFL team averaged a higher attendance than 15,271

The lowest was 15,710.  That league went out of business!

Major League Soccer, FAIL!!!

"(He) is a Meathead"

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by: Paul R. Ferro @ Sun May 31, 2009 at 17:19:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Let's face it (0.00 / 1)

Soccer is as lame as the Women's NBA

Soccer, Fail.

If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 17:52:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Are you trying to be like Barnicle? Check your facts (4.00 / 1)

The Revs are not going to sell out Foxboro. It's just too big, the sport is still growing and eventually Bob Kraft will build a soccer specific stadium in Somerville. Foxboro sucks as a soccer venue because it is too far from the population hub, too. They only open the stadium up to 20,000 for Revs anyway.

Let's compare some numbers between the Revolution and Bruins...(comparable leagues in the country as far as popularity goes)

Average attendance for Bruins home games in 2008 - 15,384
Average attendance for Revs home games in 2008  - 17,580

"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

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by: Garrett Quinn @ Sun May 31, 2009 at 17:36:23 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Spin...Spin...Spin.... (0.00 / 0)

Foxboro was chosen as the location of the AFL New England affiliate because it was (roughly) equal distance from the three largest New England population centers, Boston, Providence, and Worcester.  It worked great for American Football, so your point on "too far from the population hub" is 100% false.  in fact, it's the exact opposite.  There's a reason Foxboro was picked.

Soccer sells out 70,000 person stadiums in Europe. 15,000 is a failure.  Professional Wrestling sells more tickets.

Second, how long do we have to wait for the game to become "popular"  Pele was going to start a Soccer firestorm in the 1970's.  Didn't happen.  The World Cup in 1994 was going to start a soccer firestorm.  Didn't happen.  MLS in 1999 was going to launch a soccer firestorm.  Didn't happen.  David Beckham was going to launch a soccer firestorm in 2005.  Didn't happen.

Don't worry though....any...day...now....

Third, comparing an unpopular sport (at least in the USA) to another declining sport, Hockey, isn't very convincing.  

Finally, Kraft has to build a SMALLER stadium???  Have you ever heard of a "growing" spprt moving to a SMALLER VENUE???  That argument is absurd on it's face.

Soccer, in the USA, Fails.


"(He) is a Meathead"

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by: Paul R. Ferro @ Sun May 31, 2009 at 23:01:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

More Spin for you. (0.00 / 0)

Foxboro was chosen as the location of the AFL New England affiliate because it was (roughly) equal distance from the three largest New England population centers, Boston, Providence, and Worcester.  It worked great for American Football, so your point on "too far from the population hub" is 100% false.  in fact, it's the exact opposite.  There's a reason Foxboro was picked.

Choosing Foxboro was a bad business decision.  Their reasoning simply doesn't work.  It's obvious to me that attendance would be much better at a soccer stadium in Boston or close by.

Unlike Pats games, the commuter rail doesn't run to Foxboro for Rev games.  Don't you think that zero public transportation might effect attendance slightly?

Finally, Kraft has to build a SMALLER stadium???  Have you ever heard of a "growing" spprt moving to a SMALLER VENUE???  That argument is absurd on it's face.

Anything would be smaller than Gillette Stadium.  Moving to an actual soccer stadium rather than a football stadium with the field re-lined establishes soccer as more of a permanent thing.

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by: Patrick @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 01:36:18 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

No commuter rail???? (0.00 / 0)

So those purple trains I watch people climb into after Pat's games don't really exist?

Patrick!  Come on!!  There is a rail station literally a 3 minute walk from the Gillette Gates!

Gillette is a large stadium, true.  A successful, growing sport shouldn't need to go to a smaller venue!

A soccer field is actually larger than an American Football field.  So the field area needs to be pretty large.

A growing sport should never need to downsize.  If the attendance is growing, you want as much room as possible to grow.  Needing to move to a smaller venue is the sign of failure, not growth.

Soccer, Fail.

"(He) is a Meathead"

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by: Paul R. Ferro @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 02:41:01 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You misunderstood. (5.00 / 1)

The commuter rail runs specifically for Pats games.  The commuter rail does not run for Revolution games.
http://www.revolutionsoccer.ne...

Does the MBTA Commuter Rail run for Revolution games?

Unfortunately, no, the train does not stop at the station here in Foxborough on Revolution game days.

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by: Patrick @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 02:44:07 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Again, (0.00 / 0)

Cool Cal is like Barnicle and doesn't like to look things up, check facts, or use spell check.

It's too complicated for him.

:-)

"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

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by: Garrett Quinn @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 03:13:35 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Oh snap! (0.00 / 0)

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by: Patrick @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 03:20:41 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

For two guys getting your asses kicked... (0.00 / 0)

....you're pretty punchy, I'll give you that.

First of all, Patrick, stop glomming off Government to get everywhere, and buy a car like a real American!

There simply is no defense for Soccer's failure in America.  It's been touted as the "next big thing" at least four times by my count, and each of those four times it has failed to deliver.

The Rev's have been playing for over 10 years, and they can still barely fill 25% of Foxboro.  Soccer fills 70,000 person stadiums all over the world.

The reason the Commuter Rail don't run a train to the Rev's game is because no one GOES to Rev. games.  Even the MBTA won't run a train that no one will take!

At the Pat's games, the Train is Packed.  People notice.

The issue is, Soccer is a niche sport in the USA.  The majority of child players in the USA are women, and as the WNBA can attest, there simply is  no market for Women's professional sports.  Girls don't watch women's sports, and guys don't want to watch ugly butch women play sports either.

So the Soccer appeal is to the minority of the supposedly straight male community who don't watch American Football or Baseball or another "American" sport..

When Baseball is more exciting than you, you know you're in trouble.

Building a SMALLER venue isn't  a solution.  It's a symptom of a problem.

Soccer has failed in the USA, and no amount of Garrett's mocking of my shitty typing is going to change that!

Soccer FAIL!

"(He) is a Meathead"

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by: Paul R. Ferro @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 06:07:24 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

asses kicked? (0.00 / 0)

I've proved you wrong every time. You clearly can't grasp the concept of growth. Teams have moved out and live on their own now. They're in the black and making money. They also have to compete with with several leagues all over torld that are better than MLS. People can watch these leagues at bars and pubs or even at home now with cable tv. You don't know what you're talking about.  

"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

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by: Garrett Quinn @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 12:21:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

IF (0.00 / 0)

they cannot fill the chosen venue, they are not "making money" or "in the black".....they are getting a deal....a big fat break from the property owner.  Kraft doesn't mind, either.  Now he gets all you soocer fans to shop in all those fancy new stores he built.

No matter what you want to happen, "PEOPLE" are not watching soccer leagues in bars.....very people are.....and every time they take over the local hole for whatever the loatest Cup is, they are not Americans...they are from south of the border or from across the big pond.  In Cambridge, they are from Brazil.

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 13:07:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

another know nothing (0.00 / 0)

Going by your comment you've never been to the Phoenix Landing, Banshee, Bad Abotts, etc.

You've never been to a Revs game either.

Just like Cool Cal you'd rather bash soccer than actually understand it or its position in America.  

"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

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by: Garrett Quinn @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 13:24:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Assuming (0.00 / 0)

too much??  Suuuuuure you are.

I HAVE been to MANY Revs games....back in Sullivan.....back when they acquired Alexi Lalas......so you don't know WTF you're talking about.  USED TO HAVE season tickets while it was still Sullivan. I have not been to a single Revs game in Gilette.

You think anyone away from the left and right coast....the land of the immigrants...pays ONE bit of attention to soccer as a professional sport?  Barring immigrants from south of the border...legal or not.....and immigrants from a handful of countries in Europe?  Who is REALLY watching the Revs?

Iowa CARES about professional soccer?  No, they care about either the Hawkeyes, or the Big Red...or MAYBE even the Cyclones if they have no conscience.  You think Texas cares about professional soccer?  

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 13:56:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

YEah.... (0.00 / 0)

only uber-wicked-smaht people can understand soccer....takes such an intellect to uderstane the game....

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 13:57:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I fully understand soccer... (0.00 / 1)

...I've been around for the last four times it's tried to become big.  You're confusing YOU liking soccer with soccer actually being successful.

Lower attendance than the XFL isn't a good thing.  Being subsidized by Kraft isn't a good thing.  Breaking even because you pay the players a pittance compare to other professional sports isn't a good thing.  Professional Wrestlers make more than Soccer players, for Christ's sakes, and their faking it!

It's NOT a growing sport, if anything, it's shrinking. I remember the Rev's first season, because one of my sisters' High School Classmates was Mike Burns.  I was a classmate of his brother.  So we followed MLS in my hometown because it's was a "local guy" thing.

I specifically remember discussing the fact that there where "20,000 people(!)" at the Rev's games.  That was back in the mid-90's!  

If anything, attendance is flat.  

We've had the better part of a generation grow up not only having a American-based professional soccer league in existence, but two generations of kids who PLAYED soccer as youths (myself included).

It's had it's local hero's, and sport "Characters".  It just hasn't caught on.

Gillette, is of course, a stadium built to accommodate a game, Football, that Americans actually want to watch, and attend games of.

The Rev's have had over 10 years to grow into Gillette, and at least fill HALF the place.  It just hasn't happened.  

On ES's point about Soccer being more popular amongst foreign immigrants, well, I'd just point out it was you Garrett who posted a video of Mexicans chanting against America (in Columbus OH, if I recall correctly) at a Soccer Match.  So you found three (irish) bars where people might watch soccer.  Where the people watching actually native-born Americans?

Garrett you're a "Fan" in the truest sense of the word, ie. you're a "Fanatic" about soccer.  All the soccer spin in the world won't change the fact that Soccer has been a huge failure in the United States, and will never reach mass market appeal.

I've been following soccer for longer than you've been alive.  I know what soccer is.  Soccer, Fail.

"(He) is a Meathead"

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by: Paul R. Ferro @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 14:06:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

See my post down below (0.00 / 0)

If soccer is not growing why is the league expanding and  building stadiums?

So you've been to REvs games and you know must know first hand, as do I, that the crowd is lily white Americans.  Not immigrants, although there are some, but Americans.

No one has refuted my post about expansion and growth and profits.


"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

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by: Garrett Quinn @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 14:07:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

What? No (0.00 / 0)

more lame assumptions??  

Of COURSE the REVS games are lily-white....most of the people around here with disposable income are lily-white Americans.....and some of them actually let their kids drag them to Gilette for a game.  The immigrants scoff at the notion of the Revs being "real soccer" in comparison to their foreign home team........but I know whenever Brazil wins a game.....the streets of Cambridge fill up with cars flying Brazilian flags honkin' down the road.  So out of how many million Americans within the Revs territory......they can't get 20K to show up after all these years?

......but who is watching the Revs IN THE BARS?????  I see people with foreign accents watching soccer in the bars when there's an important game....but not Americans that are not filling Gilette......and relatively NOBODY goes to a bar to watch the Revs game.

As to your "Why are they expanding?"....expansion doesn't mean something's doing well, it means the cable TV market has channels to fill with nonsense that nobody watches....to get you to buy sponsor-stuff.

Has local Revs viewing expanded one bit?

I'm about to move out to Tewksbury and will no longer know when Brazil or any other country wins a game because it won't be on in the bars....maybe over in Lowell in bars I won't go to....and I won't have any immigrants having the "we won" parade....because outside of the cities with the immigrants......NOBODY CARES.....other than you and Patrick, of course.

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 15:55:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

League is 15 years old (0.00 / 0)

Still growing. Leagues don't instantly get on tv. They have to grow.

Come to the Wednesday night at the Banshee Pub for US vs Costa Rica and tell us how much soccer sucks.  

"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

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by: Garrett Quinn @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 16:26:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

All (0.00 / 0)

that means is that out of the hundreds of thousands of people in Boston.....you can fill ONE bar.

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 20:24:38 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

no whites in the bars? (5.00 / 1)

"......but who is watching the Revs IN THE BARS?????  I see people with foreign accents watching soccer in the bars when there's an important game....but not Americans that are not filling Gilette......and relatively NOBODY goes to a bar to watch the Revs game. "

Nothing like some good old-fashion racism to justify your ignorance.

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by: wolfp10 @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 17:59:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You could introduce $0.25 drafts for Revolution games and all you'll get is (0.00 / 1)

Garrett, Patrick and maybe a couple of foreigners to show up.

Soccer, Fail.

If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 18:11:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You do (0.00 / 0)

that and even I will show up.....but will kindly ask for ONE set to tune in to the Sox game.

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 20:36:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Take (0.00 / 0)

a hike and learn that a "foreign accent", ESPECIALLY IN BOSTON, of a person watching a soccer match.......could just as easily be Irish/Brisith/Spanish/Portuguese/Italian....white people with accents.........or any one of the other "caucasion" countries over there.

.....but you just had to be a dumbass that doesn't know what "racism" is....didn't you?  Run along and go play with the other libs that don't know shit.

Who says there are no white people watching soccer in bars?  YOU DID.  I said there are not AMERICANS....that they are either from south of the border or from across the Big Pond...that would be the Atlantic Ocean to dumbasses like you.

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 20:35:28 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

tsk tsk (0.00 / 0)

Not every American is white who speaks in clear english.

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by: wolfp10 @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 23:07:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

EXACTLY (0.00 / 0)

what kind of a moron are you?

"tsk tsk" indeed...

Who said all Americans speaking clear english are white?  Other than YOU....who said that?

Who even mentioned the color of anyone's skin....the race of ANYONE?
YOU did.

I made it VERY CLEAR to anyone that understands simple english that the "accented" folks watching soccer on TV CAN ALSO BE WHITE....CAUCASION.....FROM ANY ONE OF A BUNCH OF EUROPEAN COUNTRIES THAT ARE PREDOMINANTLY WHITE...in addition to those from south of the border...hell, I'll even add "from Africa" to those too as the guy next to me is from Ghana and LOVES soccer.......THERE....you've got white, Latino, and black all in one package.....get it straight, dumbass.

Do you understand simple friggin' english.....or not?

Noticed that your asinine reply was in "non-clear" english......does that mean you are black, white, asian, Inuit, Australian aborigine or any other race?  No, it means you're a dumbass that wrote an unclear comment.  The clear-nglish way to say it would be:

"Not every American who speaks in clear english is white."

Unless, of course, you are Yoda.

Got brain?  Speaky english?

.....and DO look up the term "racist/racism" before you incorrectly toss labels willy-nilly.  Nowhere have I ever claimed one's race is the determining factor in their capabilities or that race is the determinant factor in ones superior or inferior cabilities over another.

Grab a dictionary sometime before proving yourself to be an ignorant ass.

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 19:34:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

"The majority of child players in the USA are women" (0.00 / 1)

Yeah - they may as well change the name to "Chic Ball"

Soccer, Fail  

If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 17:56:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

15,000 isn't a failure (0.00 / 0)

The league Major League Soccer averaged about 16,500 per game last year over a 30-game regular season.  And the league only began in 1996.  I wonder what the NFL's attendance was in its 13th year of existence.

Also, as I argue in my previous post (the one posted 15:32:46), it is important not to conflate the popularity of soccer in the U.S. as a spectator sport with the popularity of the league MLS.  It is important for MLS to get significantly more soccer fans to become fans of the league MLS.  That way the league will really grow.  There are a lot of soccer fans in the U.S. who aren't really fans of MLS.  

One thing MLS should do is significantly raise its salary-cap or have no salary-cap.  Doing so would enable teams to bring in better players and play a higher level of soccer, which likely would attract more fans, especially Latino fans.  A higher cap (or no cap) also would enable teams to sign more high-profile players.  The signing of David Beckham and Mexican star Cuauhtémoc Blanco have helped with attendance.  Also, if there is a higher salary-cap, it wouldn't require any team to spend every dollar under the cap.  It would merely PERMIT teams to do so.  So, it would give owners more choice as far as how much money to spend and would allow owners who feel it wouldn't be a good business decision to pay more for players not to pay more for players.        

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by: WestStillman @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 19:58:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Hell NO!!!! If soccer really is the 4th most watched sport in the US (0.00 / 1)

Then an attendance of 16,000 should be an embarrassment.  

If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

---

by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 13:34:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

First, soccer may not be the fourth-most-watched sport in the U.S. (0.00 / 0)

The person who wrote that article may be wrong.

Second, if it is the fourth-most-watched sport in the U.S., it does not mean that it is an embarrassment for MLS to be averaging 16,500 fans over a 30-game regular season.  It is hard to get many of the fans of soccer that live in the U.S. to attend MLS games.  They can easily watch better soccer on TV for free.  And many soccer fans are fans of the sport partly because of the national passion involved.  So, many fans tend to follow the leagues and players from their country of origin.

However, MLS should be averaging more than 16,500 fans per game.  They most certainly would if they would raise the salary-cap significantly or have no salary-cap.  Doing so would enable teams to bring in better players and have a higher level of play.  Teams also could bring in more recognizable stars like Beckham and Blanco.  For example, the Mexican league pays high salaries for players.  So, it is hard for MLS teams to sign top Mexican players.  And, obviously, there is a following in many U.S. cities for top Mexican players.      

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by: WestStillman @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 18:48:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I was never really a fan of soccer. (0.00 / 0)

To me, it was just a place I took my kids years ago to run back and forth aimlessly and hysterically with about a dozen other kids, so they would become exhausted and sleep.

But hey - it Barnicle's down on it, sign me up as a fan!

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

---

by: Peter Porcupine @ Sun May 31, 2009 at 16:31:19 PM UTC

"I was never really a fan of soccer. - To me, it was just a place I took my kids years ago to run back and forth aimlessly and hysterically with about a dozen other kids" (0.00 / 1)

See Garrett and Patrick - even Peter Porcupine thinks Soccer is lame.

Soccer, Fail

If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

---

by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 17:58:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The league is growing (0.00 / 0)

If the league wasn't growing why would individual clubs be building stadiums of their own? Eleven of the fifteen clubs have or are in the process of building their own soccer-specific-stadium.

When you move out of your parents house and live on your own you're standing on your own feet, right? That is what MLS is doing. They've moved out of the cavernous NFL stadiums, where the atmosphere is usually shit, and into their own facilities, where the atmosphere is much better.

Let's look at the clubs in MLS who have built or are  building their own stadiums...

Columbus Crew
Toronto FC
FC Dallas
CD Chivas USA
Los Angeles Galaxy
Chicago Fire
Red Bull New York
Colorado Rapids
Real Salt Lake
Philadelphia Union
Kansas City Wizards

Why is the league expanding to 18 clubs by 2011 if the sport isn't growing?

If soccer doesn't have a future or wasn't growing why would Bob Kraft continue to spend MILLIONS on it?


"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

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by: Garrett Quinn @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 03:19:48 AM UTC

Anyone? (0.00 / 0)

"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

---

by: Garrett Quinn @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 13:17:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

OK..... (0.00 / 0)

Just looking at the first one....they were kicked out of the football stadium....so the $billionaire owner built them a new stadium for $28 mill........10 years ago.

Second one was a stadium already built (or being built) by the GOVERNMENT.......gotta make use of that nice new stadium that was built for the FIFA 2007.....gonna see a lot of empty seats in Canada.

......if soccer is catching on soooooo fast over the last 12 years.....why aren't they building bigger stadia instead of 20,000 seat mini-parks?

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 16:09:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Again, (0.00 / 0)

If soccer wasn't growing and was contracting as some of you have suggested  why would they be spending millions on stadiums and expanding the league?

Why would ESPN pay for the broadcast rights?

Why would TV38 pay for the broadcast rights to Revs games?
Why would WEEI pay for the broadcast rights?

TFC Sells out every game, so you're wrong about Toronto.

Um...their attendance is comparable to that of the NBA and NHL. So by your line of thinking should those leagues have bigger arenas because they've been around longer and are more popular based on tv ratings and sales?

Again, isn't it better to move out of your parents house and get your own place that is more appropriately suited for you? I'd rather pay my own mortgage than pay rent to my parents.

Just me though.  

"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

---

by: Garrett Quinn @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 16:25:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Why would (0.00 / 0)

any of the other hundred cable channels that broadcast other things nobody wants to watch...bother to pay to broadcast them?

...because there ARE viewers.......there is a profit to be made in selling ad time.

They also used to broadcast Australian football.....but nodoby watched that either...except me...at 3am.

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

---

by: ElectricStrawberry @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 20:39:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Soccer is Definitely Growing in the U.S. as a Spectator Sport (0.00 / 0)

25 years ago, there wasn't even a significant professional soccer league in the U.S.  Now we have a league that last year averaged about 16,500 fans per game over a 30 game regular-season.  Also, in 1978, the FIFA World Cup got very little TV ratings in the U.S.  In fact, the final match of the 1978 FIFA World Cup might have been the only match that was even telecast in the U.S.  In contrast, in 2006, every single match of the 2006 FIFA World Cup was telecast on both English-language and Spanish-language television.  And the World Cup got good TV ratings overall.  For example, combined, the English and Spanish-language telecasts of the 2006 World Cup Final match Italy and France attracted an estimated 16.9 million American viewers, comparable to the average viewership of the 2005 World Series of Major League Baseball.  Here is a link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07...

Also, matches involving the U.S. Men's National Team would be lucky to draw 5,000 people in 1988.  Now those matches frequently sell out large U.S. Stadiums.  For example, a World Cup qualifier between the U.S. and Honduras in RFK stadium in 2002 sold out the stadium, which has about 57,000 seats.  

Also, 25 years ago, there wasn't even a Women's World Cup.  In 1999, the Women's World Cup, which was played in the U.S., sold out large U.S. stadium, including the Rose Bowl.  The 1999 Women's World Cup also got good TV ratings.    

---

by: WestStillman @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 00:24:05 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Can't we all just unite on the fact that Barnicle is a DB of legendary proportions? n/t (5.00 / 1)

---

by: South Shore Republican @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 16:00:56 PM UTC

Hey, I Was A Linebacker (0.00 / 0)

I love the Pats vs Revs comments.  Soccer's a 30-38 game season (plus cup matches) depending where you are.  Football consists of 8 home games plus the preseason games STH's whine about because they are forced to buy them.  Of course NFL stadiums away from city centers work.  Would the Bruins or Celtics have made it in Worcester?  Probably not.

And it will take another generation of MLS getting integrated into the world's game before soccer "makes it".  However, it only took five years of readily available EPL games for the soccer knowledge of "regular Americans" to go up exponentially.  New expansion teams like Seattle come in with a ready-made fanbase, not a soccer population that had to put up with the crap MLS put on the field it's first ten years.  MLS teams are also proving themselves against what was perceived as superior Mexican and Central/South American teams, which is getting more and more of that crowd to start supporting the league.  

It will take time, but soccer will be up there with hockey and maybe even basketball in 20-30 years.      

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by: jimmychowda @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 17:36:08 PM UTC

Soccer will go out like the XFL. (0.00 / 1)

Soccer, Fail.

If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

---

by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 18:04:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Go tell the world (0.00 / 0)

"It's NOT a growing sport, if anything, it's shrinking."

In 1989, the U.S. Soccer Federation did a backflip when they sold out a 7,000 seat stadium for a Saturday night world cup qualifier.

In 1990, the U.S. National Team, made mostly of foreign born players and college players went to the World Cup in Italy and managed to score a goal against Italy in Rome.

In 1994, the World Cup was held in the U.S., and everyone in the soccer world was surprised when every game sold out large NFL stadiums.  To date, it is the most profitable World Cup.

In 1998, the U.S. National Team fielded a side in the World Cup made mostly of players in MLS, the first competition that the team didn't have to rely on nationalized players.

In 2002, the U.S. National team upset Portugal, tied Korea in Korea, upset Mexico and was a blown handball away from leading Germany 1-0 in the 2002 World Cup.

In 2006, the U.S. was in the Group of Death and managed to be the only team to not lose to Italy.

During this time Major League Soccer has grown from a gimmicky league renting NFL stadiums to a stable league where a majority of teams in the league own or manage their stadiums.  Within the past 18 months 3 groups have paid $40 million each for franchises in Philadelphia, Vancouver, and Portland, Ore.  New stadiums in Harrison, NJ and Kansas City, Mo. are currently under construction, with Robert Kraft publicly stating he wants to spend $100 million of his own money on a stadium for the Revs.

Soccer is not a big 4 sport, but it has grown to the point where it isn't going to disappear.  Anyone who says soccer is shrinking is at best misinformed or at worst ignorant of reality.

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by: wolfp10 @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 18:11:49 PM UTC

Perhaps it was the most profitable World Cup... (0.00 / 0)

...because it was held in the Wealthiest nation on earth?

You sell out 100,000 seats in Mexico, you make what?  $3 Million at the gate?  Twice that in merchandise sales at the game?

You sell out a 68,000 person Stadium in the US, you make $7 million at the gate.  1.5 times that in Merchandise sales (unless you think Mexicans can suddenly afford $10 for a cup of beer like at Gillette).

The return per attendee is much higher.

Your post about all the countries we "upset" or "tied" reminds me of the old Simpsons bit about Soccer in Springfield:

"Finally, it will be decided which is the Greatest Nation On Earth, Portugal OR Mexico!"

Please...BORING.

Soccer, Fail!

(yes, SSR, Barnicle is a schmuck, but that doesn't make soccer a success!)

"(He) is a Meathead"

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by: Paul R. Ferro @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 19:04:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Soccer = Chic Ball (0.00 / 0)

That is all

If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 19:15:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Oh - Almost forgot (0.00 / 0)

Soccer, Fail.

If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

---

by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 19:17:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

profitability (0.00 / 0)

Geez, I thought profitability would be something people around here would be proud of.

---

by: wolfp10 @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 19:46:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Nah dood (0.00 / 0)

Let's just bash soccer guy! That sport is fa fahkin queeahs kid. Fahk that shit kid! Soccah is ghey dood.

Ya guy!

"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

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by: Garrett Quinn @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 20:38:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

"Soccah is ghey dood" (2.50 / 2)

OMG

My gay friend was just reading this post.  He called Garrett a homo for watching Soccer.


If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

---

by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 13:41:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

So I have pointed out... (0.00 / 0)

that league is growing in several different areas and yet you still bash it because it didn't become the #1 sport in America instantly and you don't understand it. Remarkable.

It took the NFL 75+ years to surpass MLB in popularity.


"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

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by: Garrett Quinn @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 20:51:30 PM UTC

How about (0.00 / 0)

looking at JUST the Revolution?

How has attendance per game grown over 14 years?

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 20:57:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

We're talking about the sport as whole... (0.00 / 0)

not just one club.

Again, is the sport not growing if clubs are making money, building stadiums, and  the league is expanding?

Answer the question.

Why do you have such a hatred for soccer, anyway? I am always amazed by people in America who despise soccer yet seem to know nothing about it.  

"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

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by: Garrett Quinn @ Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 21:50:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

OK (0.00 / 0)

......pick another club.  ANY club.  How is the attendance grown over the life of ANY club?  

I'd check and see where the stadium $$$ comes from.

Your question goes unanswered because "league expansion" is not proof of "growth"....it might try to build growth by bringing the sport to another 20,000 attendees, but it is not a sign OF growth.  "Expansion has happened in other sports and it had nothing to do with growth.  
Building a new stadium is not proof of "growth".....plenty of new stadia built in the country in plenty of sports that have not seen growth.....all that means is that someone thinks they can make a profit.....especially if the local government will build it for ya.

You find that in any given area, a team has an increase in attendance....THAT is growth for the area.  Attendance up nationwide over a period of time.

Why do you feel the need to lie about some alleged hatred for soccer that I do not have.  Yeah....I went to maybe 4 ENTIRE SEASONS of home games to a sport I hate.

Yeah....I despise soccer sooooo much I had season tickets and went to every game.  SUch a hatred.

No, Garrett....only super-wicked-smaht ghey guys understand soccer.  I mean, I went to dozens of MLS games and I just couldn't figure out such a difficult sport to figure out.

.....and get this.....I hate soccer so much I played it for 3 years.  SUCH a hatred......

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 16:05:56 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Prove it. (0.00 / 0)

"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

---

by: Garrett Quinn @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 16:36:40 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

growth (0.00 / 0)

".it might try to build growth by bringing the sport to another 20,000 attendees, but it is not a sign OF growth.  "Expansion has happened in other sports and it had nothing to do with growth.  
Building a new stadium is not proof of "growth"

So MLS expanding from 10 teams in 2002 (after contracting 2 teams) to 18 in 2011 isn't growth?  An expansion fee that grew from $10 million in 2004 to $40 million in 2008 isn't growth?  Having $1 billion invested (mostly from the private sector) into stadiums operated by MLS teams where they previously rented NFL stadiums isn't growth?

These facts aren't proof of growth, then what do you consider proof?

BTW, attendance numbers for MLS...
Year Average Median %<10K %>20k
1996 17406 15093 21.9% 26.3%
1997 14619 12733 25.0% 16.3%
1998 14312 11871 26.6% 16.1%
1999 14282 12973 32.3% 15.1%
2000 13756 12690 34.4% 12.5%
2001 14962 13431 26.6% 17.7%
2002 15821 14108 17.1% 18.6%
2003 14898 13641 23.3% 18.0%
2004 15559 13285 24.7% 25.3%
2005 15108 12619 27.1% 17.7%
2006 15504 14175 18.8% 18.8%
2007 16770 15353 8.2% 29.7%
2008 16459 15188 11.0% 24.8%

The past 3 years have shown the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th highest average attendance, 1st, 2nd, and 4th highest median attendance, the 3 lowest % of crowds under 10,000, and the 1st, 3rd, and 4th % of crowds over 20,000.  No matter how you splice it, the sport and league are growing.

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by: wolfp10 @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 18:10:51 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Soccer, Fail (0.00 / 0)

When you watch MLS Soccer on TV (ESPN8 "The Ocho") and you see more empty seats than full ones then you know this .... "Soccer, Fail"

When you call your Bookie and ask if you can put $50 on the NE Revolution and he says "huh?"  then you know this .... "Soccer, Fail"

When your fellow bloggers show you charts of attendance peaking at 20K after 13 boring seasons, you know this .... Soccer, Fail.

If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 19:21:01 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

What do you mean "Soccer Fail?" (0.00 / 0)

The sport of soccer is not going to "fail" in the U.S.  First, soccer is a very popular participation sport in the U.S.  Second, the FIFA World Cup got good TV ratings in 2006.  For example, the English and Spanish-language telecasts of the 2006 World Cup final between France and Italy attracted an estimated 16.9 million U.S. viewers, comparable to the average viewership of the 2005 World Series of Major League Baseball.  In addition, according to a Harris Poll conducted prior to the 2006 World Cup, nearly half of respondents expressed some interest in watching a game in the 2006 World Cup.  Moreover, exhibition matches involving top European teams (like Real Madrid and Manchester United) and top Mexican teams frequently sell out large U.S. stadiums.  In addition, a February World Cup qualifier between the U.S. and Mexico played in Columbus, Ohio got good TV ratings.  The game attracted 1.2 million viewers on ESPN2 and 10.7 million viewers on Univision, the Spanish-language network.

In addition, there are 40 million Latinos living in the U.S.  Latinos currently make up 13 percent of the U.S. population, and their numbers are growing steadily.  Today one of every eight residents of the United States is Latino, and it is projected that Latinos could account for one of every five residents by 2035 and one of every four by 2055.  Moreover, soccer probably is, overall, the most popular spectator sport among Latinos living in the U.S.  For example, the 2007 Gold Cup final between the U.S. and Mexico got good TV ratings on Univision.  6.3 million people watched the game on Univision during the second half.  That number is more than twice as high as the number of people who watched the decisive game of the Stanley Cup final in 2005.  Also, a March 18, 2007 regular season match between two Mexican teams (Club America and Chivas) drew 4.3 million U.S. TV viewers, higher than all but one hockey match shown in the U.S. from 2005 to 2007.

Also, it is nearly certain that MLS will not fold in the foreseeable future.  It gets decent attendance, and its owners -- including Phil Anschutz, Robert Kraft, Paul Allen (of Microsoft fame), and the Lamar Hunt family -- have deep pockets and are very committed to the game of soccer and MLS.  

However, MLS can and should do better in terms of attendance, and probably also TV ratings.  Raising the salary-cap significantly (or having no salary-cap) would be a good place to start.  It would enable the league to bring in better and higher profile players.  It also would make it easier for the league to bring in players that appeal to the ethnic base of some MLS cities, for instance, top Mexican players.      

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by: WestStillman @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 19:37:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

What do you mean "Soccer Fail?" (5.00 / 1)

I don't know, I just got it from Cool Cal at the top of the thread.


If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Wed Jun 03, 2009 at 13:30:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

So in (5.00 / 1)

13 years, attendance went from 17406 to 16459, on average.  That's soooooome (negative) growth......and the trend is downwards.....especially now that people don't have as much disposable income.

YEs, expansion to 18 teams is "growth in the number of teams in the league" and "growth in the number of MLS players"....but it says nothing of growth in Americans that attend games and/or watch it on TV.

No....expansion is not growth of attendance or viewership.  Unless you're filling stadia every game, expansion is a method to try to increase attendence and viewership nationally....but it is not a sign OF growth in attendance if attendance is not going up.  It's a driving force, not a trailer.  Seeing your numbers......attendance is not going up nationally.

No....an increase of an expansion fee is not a sign of growth of anything other than the expansion fee.....says nothing about Americans in attendance or watching it on TV.

Ooooo....playing with statistics.....you know what it means when the average is above the median...don't you?  It means there are a few parks filling up that're raising the stats for those parks that are not filling up......that there are more teams with below average attendance than above average......that the teams near major cities are pulling up the teams near minor cities.

......and do you know what will happend to that average after the expansion?  Hint:  the average will go down, because they're putting teams close to smaller cities....smaller cities won't have the same 20K that a big city can rely on attending.  Sure, it'll get a short-term bump due to the novelty....but the average attendance per game will go down.

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 19:54:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

What do you mean by "growth?" (0.00 / 0)

---

by: WestStillman @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 20:04:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

It is true that MLS's average-attendance was lower in 2008 than (0.00 / 0)

in MLS's inaugural season (1996).  But far more people attended MLS matches in 2008 than in 1996.  2,785,001 people attended MLS matches in 1996; 3,456,641 people attended MLS matches in 2008.  And the number of people that actually watch match is important in determining whether a league has grown.  For example, suppose that a league average attendance in one season is 50,000 people per game, but there are only four teams in the league.  Ten years later, the league averages 50,000 people per game, but it has 50 teams in the league.  It would be reasonable to say that the league has grown.  Moreover, more people watched MLS matches in 2008 than in any prior MLS season.  

However, MLS's increase in attendance is not as impressive as I would have hoped, especially with the number of soccer fans that there are in the U.S.  This is a country of a little over 300 million people and over 40 million Latinos.  And a reasonable number of those people enjoy soccer.  For example, the 2007 Gold Cup final between the U.S. and Mexico got good TV ratings on Univision.  6.3 million people watched the game on Univision during the second half.  That number is more than twice as high as the number of people who watched the decisive game of the Stanley Cup final in 2005.  Also, a March 18, 2007 regular season match between two Mexican teams (Club America and Chivas) that aired on one of the Spanish-language channels in the U.S. drew 4.3 million U.S. TV viewers, higher than all but one hockey match shown in the U.S. from 2005 to 2007.  So, it is important for MLS to try to get more of these soccer fans to be fans of MLS.  A higher salary-cap would be a good place to start.  For one thing, it would enable MLS teams to sign more elite Latino players.  

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by: WestStillman @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 20:26:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

What do you mean by "growth?" (0.00 / 0)

Significantly more people living in the U.S. will watch MLS matches this season than ever did before.  And other than MLS's first season, attendance was improved overall.  Moreover, it is important to see the first MLS season in context.  Attendance was as high as it was partly because there was not a significant professional soccer league in the U.S. since the NASL folded in 1984.  So, many fans were chomping at the bit to see high-quality soccer.  Also, in that first season, MLS did a good job of acquiring players that appealed to the ethnic base of some of their teams, for instance, the San Jose Clash had Mexican star Misseal Espinoza.  

However, MLS has not increased attendance as much as I would have hope.  And it's discouraging that MLS has yet to have average-attendance that is equal to or greater than that of its inaugural season.  This off-season MLS and the MLS Players Union are going to negotiate a new collective bargaining agreement.  Hopefully the new agreement will include larger rosters and a significantly higher salary-cap (or no salary-cap).  These changes likely would help boost MLS attendance.  Also, next season the New York Red Bulls will be playing in a 27,000 seat stadium in Harrison, New Jersey.  Here is a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...

This new stadium should help with attendance.  The Red Bulls have been playing in Giants Stadium, which seats about 80,000 people.  With MLS's low salary-cap, the New York team doesn't have the star power to fill Giants Stadium the way the New York Cosmos did.  15,000 people in an 80,000 seat stadium looks low-class and unprofessional and creates meager atmosphere.  So, people are less apt to attend games or return to games.  A smaller, more intimate stadium likely will improve atmosphere and provide fans with a more enjoyable, which likely will help attendance.  

The New England Revolution are trying to get a new stadium built in Somerville.  This likely would help their attendance.  The atmosphere the Revs generate at Gillette Stadium tends to be unimpressive.    

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by: WestStillman @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 19:15:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Soccer is going to be the biggest sport in the USA..... (0.00 / 0)

And everyone is going to convert to metrics....Still waiting for this to happen...

I actually like playing soccer and watching kids play soccer, but can't stand to watch professional soccer.  In professional soccer there is too much open space.  Rarely do men bump into each other causing a bench clearing rumble. It also has something to do with the fact that it is an import sport.  Somehow it is unAmerican...


Sincerely,
Customercentricity and Resource Allocations Coordinator
Chief Aggravation Officer
Redmassgroup.com

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by: Vote3rdpartynow @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 10:35:07 AM UTC

Barnicle really nailed this article. (0.00 / 0)

Soccer, Fail.

If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 13:42:44 PM UTC

What reason is there to believe that Barnicle nailed the article? (0.00 / 0)

Please give reasons.  It helps one determine whether a claim is warranted.  

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by: WestStillman @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 18:52:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

When he said (0.00 / 0)

Soccer is boring.  'I watched for 1 1/2 hours and the score ended 2-0 with not much action in between goals.'

or when he said 'soccer is a good little game for kids to play until they discover Baseball'

He nailed it, it was poetry .....

If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 19:31:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Soccer (0.00 / 0)

RRRR wrote: "When he said Soccer is boring.  'I watched for 1 1/2 hours and the score ended 2-0 with not much action in between goals.'"

There is an issue of whether something can be boring in itself.  Is boringness like causation, where one can believe that event X caused event Y and someone else can know that event X didn't cause event Y?  Or, are all claims about what is boring equally plausible?  I'm not sure.  But if some claims about what is boring can be more or less plausible, Barnicle's claim that soccer is borring is less plausible.

I'm a huge soccer fan, and many soccer matches are not boring.  At high levels, soccer requires high levels of skill, teamwork, discipline, inventiveness, balance, coordination and athleticism.  It also requires a high level of practical rationality, because players have few opportunities to follow the coach's specific instructions; instead they must make good judgments based on their assessment of the conditions presented to them.  Soccer also provides fans with two 45-minute periods of commercial-free action in which the ball is almost always in play.  

As for Barnicle's assertion that, in the Barcelona-Manchester United match, nothing much happened in between the goals, that is incorrect.  Lots happened that was related to which team would win.  If Barcelona had made one mistake, the game could have changed massively, because then Manchester United could have scored.  This would have tied the match or (near the end) put Manchester United down by only one goal and given them the momentum.  Because soccer is a low-scoring game, each play can affect who wins the match (or whether it is tied).  In contrast, in basketball, if Kobe Bryant misses a free-throw in the first quarter, it is generally not going to affect whether the Lakers win or lose.  Moreover, Barcelona's impressive possession was important as far as their winning the match.  If they hadn't had as much possession, then Manchester United would have had more possession, which would have significantly increased the likelihood of Manchester United having good scoring opportunities.  And if they had had a number of good scoring opportunities, it would have significantly increased the likelihood of their scoring.  And if the had scored, it would have significantly increased the likelihood of their winning the match -- either in regular time, in overtime or in penalty-kicks.  Because soccer is a low-scoring match, each goal can affect who wins and who loses the match.  

Moreover, the match between Manchester United and Barcelona was reasonably entertaining.  The skill that Barcelona displayed was really impressive.  It's hard for people to keep possession of a ball for as long as Barcelona did with a team as good as Manchester United trying to take the ball away from them.  And both goals Barcelona scored were well-taken.  Iniesta's pass to Eto'o was good, and Xavi's cross to Messi was good.  

RRR wrote: "...or when he said 'soccer is a good little game for kids to play until they discover Baseball.'"

For the vast majority of kids, soccer is a good game to play, for some of the reasons we talked about above.  But it is also a good game for many adults to play.  For one thing, it keeps you in shape.  And it has the right amount of contact.  It has enough contact to get your competitive juices flowing.  But it generally doesn't cause serious long-term injuries like boxing or American football can.  In addition, that soccer is a good game for most kids to play doesn't mean that it is not a good spectator sport.  It's both.  For one, it provides fans with two 45-minute periods of commercial-free action in which the ball is almost always in play.    

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by: WestStillman @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 20:01:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

HERE (0.00 / 0)

are the current attendance records...........and attendance is DOWN.  WAYYYYYYYY down in too many cities.....double digit down.....LA down 22%.....Dallas DOWN 33+%.

...New England average is 11,591.00...UP a little.

Hell.....12 teams can't even get 15K, on average.

....and what is in the water in Seattle......29+ thousand per game???????

Go ahead and expand......looks like the stadia are lready filled to capacity.

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 21:04:06 PM UTC

You sound like you want it to fail (0.00 / 0)

You sound like you want the league to fail. For someone who allegedly attended several games and was even a season ticket holder this is interesting.


"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

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by: Garrett Quinn @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 21:25:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Go ahead (0.00 / 0)

...make up whatever you need to feeeeeel like you said something.

You should have been using you brain to see I was playing with stats....as ya cant compare this season with any other season yet because summer attendance hasn't come in yet.

......but nooooooooooooo......you were too busy bein  a dilhole and calling my integrity into question with your "allegedly" nonsense and making shit up...probably rubbin one out about it right now...

Yes, Gheyrett, I went to all Revs home games for...and I checked my card history...5 seasons through 2001 when my house burned down and I lost everything...so sports wasn't exactly on my mind or wallet.  I'll admit I wasn't exactly a soccer fan at the time and still am not....but the girl was, so I went.

Continue the prickish behavior......next time try to make some shit up about me that is true.   Particularly love the part that only Gheyrett understands the game......such intellect...  

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Wed Jun 03, 2009 at 00:24:41 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well... (0.00 / 0)

I proved the league was growing and expanding in several ways. I didn't need to respond to numbers only 5 or 6 games in.

I just find it silly that people hate a sport so much. As if it poses a threat to their favorite sports or something.  

"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

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by: Garrett Quinn @ Wed Jun 03, 2009 at 11:53:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You (0.00 / 0)

assume it's "hate"......such a lib thing to do.

What if.....and I'm going out on a limb here thinking that you might understand this.....what if people just don't care much for soccer and are ridiculing it as the pansy European sport it is......without "hate" being involved?  Do note that these are the same people that will have their kids playing soccer this summer.  My coming kids will probably play.  My girl played for 8 years until she ruptured her achilles playing.

What if......they just get a kick outta annoying the pansies that defend the pansy European sport?

Why limit everything to feeeeeeeeeeelings like the whiners at the DU and Kos??  I'd call it "indifference" with purpose-driven ridicule.

"I acknowledge having racist and classist and sexist feelings of white male superiority." -John Howard

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Wed Jun 03, 2009 at 13:44:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

ElectricStrawberry (0.00 / 0)

wrote: "You assume it's 'hate'......such a lib thing to do.

"What if.....and I'm going out on a limb here thinking that you might understand this.....what if people just don't care much for soccer and are ridiculing it as the pansy European sport it is......without 'hate' being involved?  Do note that these are the same people that will have their kids playing soccer this summer.  My coming kids will probably play.  My girl played for 8 years until she ruptured her achilles playing."

People shouldn't ridicule soccer.  It's a great sport.  And it provides a context for people of different countries and backgrounds to come together in healthy competition.  And it would be good if soccer got more popular in the U.S.  First, it is great for physical fitness.  And it is by far the most popular sport in the world.  So, it will help connect the U.S. with the rest of the world in a positive way.  It can help break down barriers and misunderstandings.  

And soccer is not a pansy sport, whatever that means.  It's a great sport.  

And it is not just the most popular sport in Europe.  It is also the most popular sport in Latin America, Africa, the Caribbean, China and much of the rest of Asia.  

ElectricStrawberry wrote: "What if......they just get a kick outta annoying the pansies that defend the pansy European sport?

"Why limit everything to feeeeeeeeeeelings like the whiners at the DU and Kos??  I'd call it "indifference" with purpose-driven ridicule."

I don't know any soccer fan or soccer player who is a "pansy."  What does that mean, anyway?    

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by: WestStillman @ Wed Jun 03, 2009 at 19:51:35 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Boston's numbers are down about 60% from just two years ago.... (0.00 / 0)

Oh wait a minute, I am thinking of Boston Globe circulation figures.  Nevermind...

Sincerely,
Customercentricity and Resource Allocations Coordinator
Chief Aggravation Officer
Redmassgroup.com

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by: Vote3rdpartynow @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 22:14:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

MLS Attendance (0.00 / 0)

ElectricStrawberry wrote: "HERE are the current attendance records...........and attendance is DOWN.  WAYYYYYYYY down in too many cities.....double digit down.....LA down 22%.....Dallas DOWN 33+%.

"...New England average is 11,591.00...UP a little.

"Hell.....12 teams can't even get 15K, on average."

MLS attendance is lower for most teams at this point this season than it was at the same point last season.  But do you intend to make any larger point than that?  The sport of soccer is not any less popular as a spectator sport in the U.S. now than it was at this point last year.  Sports don't tend to get significantly less popular in a country over the course of one year.  And nothing has happened to the sport of soccer that would cause significant numbers of people to like it less than did a year ago.  For instance, there hasn't been some sort of steroid scandal.  

Also, it is very likely that the league MLS is not less popular now than it was at this point last year.  Sports leagues don't tend to get less popular over a year unless some major event happens, for example, a steroids scandal.  Also, there are more likely explanations for MLS's having lower attendance now than it did this time last year.  For example, the U.S. is in the midst of fairly significant economic downturn.  Also, David Beckham played in MLS at the beginning of last season; he has not played in MLS at the beginning of this season.  Beckham is a fairly big draw in the U.S.  

Also, before we draw any big conclusion about MLS's attendance in 2009 we should wait and see how attendance turns out over the rest of the season.  We are only part of the way through the season.

However, MLS's lower attendance this season for many teams concerns me somewhat.  For one thing, there are many soccer fans in the U.S. who do not care much about MLS.

There are a few things that the league should do.  And some of the likely consequences of these changes are that the league will see improvements in attendance, TV ratings and merchandise sales.  First, as they are going to do, they should expand to Portland, Philadelphia and Vancouver over the next couple seasons.  They should also expand to Montreal within the next three years.  All those cities have a good chance of consistently averaging more than 20,000 fans per game over the regular-season.  Saint Louis is another city to seriously considering expanding to over the next five years.  It has a strong soccer community based partly on German immigrants.  

Second, the league should continue to encourage soccer-specific stadiums.  They improve the atmosphere of games and seem to foster a higher quality of soccer.  Those factors seem to help with attendance.  The Red Bulls will be opening their new stadium next year.  And the Revolution is working on getting a new stadium built in Somerville.  

Finally, the league should significantly raise the salary-cap and increase the roster size by four or five players.  Right now the cap is between 2 and 3 million per team.  A higher cap would bring in better players and produce a higher level of play overall.  It also would bring in more high-profile players and players that appeal to then ethnic base of some MLS teams.

ElectricStrawberry wrote: "Go ahead and expand......looks like the stadia are lready filled to capacity."

I'm not sure I see your point.  There are at most three teams that should play in stadiums with more seats than the stadiums in which they are playing now.  San Jose and Kansas City both should.  And both franchises are building new stadiums.  San Jose is currently playing in a stadium that has a capacity of about 10,000 seats.  They are building a soccer-specific stadium that will have 18,000 seats.  It should be completed within the next couple years.  Kansas City is currently playing in a minor league baseball stadium that has a capacity of about 10,000 seats.  They are going to build a new stadium within the next couple years that will seat 18,500 people.  However, apparently there are some delays with the construction of the stadium because of the economic downturn.  Finally, Toronto probably should expand their stadium from about 20,000 to 25,000-30,000.  They probably could fill a stadium that size on a consistent basis.  The team in Toronto, Toronto FC, is very popular in the city of Toronto.  But more important than expanding the number of seats in their stadium is replacing their artificial turf surface with natural grass.  Their current surface is bad for the quality of soccer.  

However, MLS should expand in terms of the number of teams in the league.  I discuss this above.      

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by: WestStillman @ Wed Jun 03, 2009 at 19:35:57 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Holy Crap you guys!!!!! (0.00 / 0)

I was reading some of Garrett's propoganda (follow the link in his signature) when I found this => http://soccernet.espn.go.com/n...

Soccer Match:  USA v IRAN !!!!!!

Can someone please explain to me what we have to gain by playing IRAN in Soccer?  What if we lose?  What if everyone laughs at us?  This is not good.


If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Wed Jun 03, 2009 at 14:06:36 PM UTC

It would be a really good idea (0.00 / 0)

for the U.S. to play Iran in soccer prior to the 2010 World Cup.  First, Iran is a good team.  They beat us in the 1998 World Cup, and they may qualify for the 2010 World Cup.  Over the last 10 years, they have been one of the better teams in Asia.  The game would be good competition for us, which would help us improve and prepare for the 2010 World Cup.  It would be especially good for us to playing in the nation of Iran.  The crowd likely would be intense, and playing in difficult circumstances -- with hostile crowds -- tends to help a team improve.  Moreover, the U.S.'s playing in Iran likely would help with international relations and help reduce hostilities between the two countries.  When teams play together in competition, it tends to help people see the other person as a real human being, which can promote other kinds of dialogue and cooperation.  We saw this when the U.S. played China in ping-pong during the 1970s.  

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by: WestStillman @ Wed Jun 03, 2009 at 20:02:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

LMAO (0.00 / 0)

GUYS, "I LOVE YOU MAN".....
coming up on 100 posts in a SOCCER thread!!!

Good points on ALL sides....

My 2 cents...
Soccer is a GREAT conditioning sport, simple and easy to learn for the kids etc.  
For CURRENT (AMERICAN) adults....ummmm boring.

Reason soccer is the WORLDS most popular sport is because third world countries can at least provide balls to kick around in dirt for entertainment.
Americans have Ice rinks, ball fields, football, basketball etc. and the MONEY to use them.

For entertainment, it will maybe crack the top (4) in the next 15-20 years. The more the USA becomes a third world country, the more soccer will gain ground. And WE/USA are going in a third world direction.

As for that harmony and bringing people together from all around the world BS, ummm I seem to remember being amused by some pretty outrageous Soccer riots....lol

 

"From MY cold dead hands"

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by: Knightbrigade @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 05:39:27 AM UTC

Knightbrigade (0.00 / 0)

wrote: "My 2 cents...
Soccer is a GREAT conditioning sport, simple and easy to learn for the kids etc.  
For CURRENT (AMERICAN) adults....ummmm boring."

I'm an American adult, and I'm a huge soccer fan.  I find many soccer matches very entertaining and exciting.  Millions of people living in the U.S. are soccer fans.  For example, over 3 million people attended MLS matches in 2008.  Remember we are a country of over 300 million people and 40 million Latinos.

Knightbrigade wrote: "Reason soccer is the WORLDS most popular sport is because third world countries can at least provide balls to kick around in dirt for entertainment.
Americans have Ice rinks, ball fields, football, basketball etc. and the MONEY to use them."

Soccer's inexpensiveness is most likely one cause of soccer's massive popularity world wide.  People in poorer parts of the world, which much of the world is, can play soccer without having massive resources and wealth.  All you need is a ball and a couple goals and some sort of unobstructed space.  However, soccer's being inexpensive is definitely not the only cause of its massive popularity world wide, for soccer is the most popular sport - including most popular spectator sport - in the vast majority of the wealthiest nations on the planet, including Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Switzerland, Ireland, Austria, Luxembourg, Germany, England, France, Iceland, Holland, Spain, Italy, Israel, Singapore, Belgium, South Korea and China.  And (along with baseball) soccer is one of the two most popular spectator sports in Japan.  Here is a link to the UNDP Human Development Rankings for 2008:

http://hdr.undp.org/en/statist...

Soccer is the most popular sport in the overwhelming majority of countries ranked in the top 50 of the UNDP Human Development Index.  

Knightbrigade wrote: "For entertainment, it will maybe crack the top (4) in the next 15-20 years. The more the USA becomes a third world country, the more soccer will gain ground. And WE/USA are going in a third world direction."

I'm not sure what you mean by "entertainment."  But if you mean popularity as a spectator sport, soccer may already be the fourth most popular spectator sport in the U.S., especially when you factor in TV ratings for the World Cup and the number of Latinos living in the U.S.  But soccer also might be the fifth or sixth most popular spectator sport in the U.S. now.  Nascar and hockey could be higher.  Although World Cup soccer matches get better TV ratings than the NHL does, the NHL gets higher average attendance, and it has many more teams than MLS does.  Moreover, although more people might watch soccer than Nascar when you factor in the number of people that watch their kids play soccer, a lot of  them are watching because their kids play and not because they enjoy the sport as a spectator sport.  Also, Nascar gets better attendance and TV ratings than does the league MLS does.

However, soccer is likely to become increasingly popular in the U.S. as a spectator sport over the next 15 to 20 years.  For one thing, today, one of every eight residents of the United States is Latino, and it is projected that Latinos could account for one of every five residents by 2035 and one of every four by 2055.  Also, soccer is significantly more popular in the U.S. as spectator sport now that it was 15 to 20 years ago.  For example, we didn't even have a major professional soccer league 15 years ago.  And soccer was more popular 15 to 20 years ago than it was 30 to 40 years.      

Knightbrigade wrote: "As for that harmony and bringing people together from all around the world BS, ummm I seem to remember being amused by some pretty outrageous Soccer riots....lol"

Soccer doesn't always result in positive interaction between fans.  But if often does.  And it can continue to do so, especially with reasonable focus on police security.  And it is not just the games themselves that can bring people together in a positive context; it is the improved communication that can come from countries that compete against each other and host events.  For example, Japan and South Korea's often testy relations improved because of their joint hosting of the 2006 FIFA World Cup.  

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by: WestStillman @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 06:49:35 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

In addition (0.00 / 0)

I wrote: "However, soccer's being inexpensive is definitely not the only cause of its massive popularity world wide..."

Another reason that soccer inexpensiveness is most certainly not the only cause of its massive popularity world wide is that there are some sports that are even less expensive than soccer is that are significantly less popular as spectator sport than soccer is, for instance, the marathon.  

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by: WestStillman @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 07:16:34 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Oh yeah that's right ..... Soccer Riots!!! (0.00 / 0)

Soccer riots are great!!!

I also enjoy watching whole chunks of seating collapse.  I remember 1 time some skinny weakling scored a goal, then went on to celebrate by tearing off his shirt!  He ran over to the sideline to show off his rib cage and the fans (I think they were mostly French men) went absolutely wild!  They completely crowded 1 side of this rickety upper deck to catch a view and then the whole thing collapsed.  

If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 13:32:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Garrett's Sig => Next At Costa Rica - June 3rd, 7:30pm ESPN (0.00 / 0)

Was it a good game?    

If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 16:31:22 PM UTC

Soccer, Fail (0.00 / 0)

If I write something in italics it means I'm just making a joke.  : )  

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 18:37:12 PM UTC