Now here's an effort that's doomed to fail. (5.00 / 4)

Who's backing this effort? Obviously they ignore the dictum: The perfect is the enemy of the good.

Tisei's a reasonable choice for Lt. Governor, he has appeal to independents.

If I recall correctly other Republicans got the nod from the dreaded Massachusetts Teachers Association. Robert Hedlund, bless his soul, was attractive enough to draw support from a traditional Democratic base. And no one's calling him out on it; nor should they. It's not a bug it's a feature when politicians can draw votes from the majority. Sen. Hedlund serves with distinction and has a bright future.

Over his legislative career, Hedlund has proudly supported the interests of working families while protecting the taxpayer interests.  He has earned political endorsements from varied groups and unions, including Citizens for Limited Taxation, Massachusetts Teachers Union, Carpenters Local 424, Boston Carmen's Union Local 589, IBEW Local 103 (Electricians), Massachusetts Nurses Association, Massachusetts Environmental Police Officers Association, National Federation of Independent Business, Pipefitters Local 537, SEIU 5000-NAGE, Woodframers Local 723, SEIU - Local 888 (Service Employees International Union), and the Professional Firefighters of Massachusetts.

The introduction to the group states:

The Republican Party in Massachusetts has an opportunity that only comes around every 20 years or so, and Charlie Baker has made a choice that could hurt our party's chance at repeating the historic gains made in 1990, when Republicans won races for Governor, Lt. Governor, Treasurer, thirty-eight seats in the House and 16 in the Senate.

That year Republicans and later independents and Democrats elected the most pro-choice, socially liberal tax cutter in Massachusetts political history: William Weld.

Tisei's CLT rating is acceptable; not perfect. There are issues on which I profoundly disagree but I'm not about to throw common sense and political pragmatism out the window!

So let's cut to the chase: Why is "DUMPTISEI.COM" really opposed to the Senator's campaign for Lt. Gov? I think you know the answer.

"Work is the essence of Man."

---

by: Karl Marx @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 17:31:52 PM UTC

Oh yes we do. (0.00 / 1)

The same people vilifying Tisei had no problem whatsoever of enthusiastically supporting candidates with essentially the same voting record - pro-choice, pragmatic conservatism on fiscal issues, save for one issue. Three guesses what the issue in question is.  

Make no mistake, this is a single issue litmus test at play.

---

by: republicanvoices @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 17:54:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Income Tax Rollback (0.00 / 0)

Is that the single issue?  Because he was the only Republican in the Senate to oppose that.  So that's your fiscal issue.

As for abortion, let's look at Planned Parenthood.  They have a 100% litmus test.  If you are with them 99% of the time you are no "pro-choice" in their minds.  To be clear:  Planned Parenthood says Tisei is "Pro-choice" but Bruce Tarr is not.  That is how extreme Tisei's Pro-abortion record is.  Tisei was the ONLY Republican Senate candidate that NARAL endorsed.  The other Republicans do NOT have the same record as Tisei.

Tisei is no moderate.  He is a left winger.  He not only votes for his left wing agenda, he sponsors the bills and actively campaigns for them in the media.

Bob Hedlund for Minority Leader.

---

by: Mike "DD4RP" Rossettie @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 20:38:56 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Who is "we"? (0.00 / 0)

Just curious - who are the organizers behind this effort?

---

by: eury13 @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 17:32:27 PM UTC

I've got my theory (0.00 / 0)

Think I know who this is, but none of this kerfuffle really concerns me at this time, so I'm not going to go out of my way to stop it. Still, here are my thoughts:

- Richard Tisei has a duly-earned, strong reputation among Republicans for his professionalism, and thus it does make me a bit queasy that there should be this drive-by attempt... even if he has never bothered to learn my name after meeting me several times (guess thats quite small of me!)

- In this pick Baker's attempt to "take the social issues off the table", was clumsy and stupid. It's only forced a conversation as to why our ticket is more liberal on social issues (and taxation) than the rest of the party. The way in which they are so conspicuously at odds with the rest of their party only forces the issues on the table. Well done guys! (Am I the only one left in this state who understands politics?!)

- Social conservatives probably deserved this pick for insisting upon a unrealistic purity standard and talking down more conservative alternatives.

- Baker's campaign doesn't really appeal to me in any way. I don't really feel any desire to catch flak defending them, because apparently I'm not their demographic anyway.

- My bags are packed as I await my next career step, so at this point as shootout isn't going to really bother me. Go for it guys!

---

by: South Shore Republican @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 17:51:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Best of luck (0.00 / 0)

SSR:  I hope your next career step means staying in MA.  I have very much enjoyed reading your thoughtful commentary on this board.

---

by: yankeepundit @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 17:58:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thanks YP, appreciate that! (0.00 / 0)

I'm still around for the next few months. When I get a clearer idea of what is to happen, I'll be posting an RMG "retirement" piece should it become necessary and to let our online colleagues what it is I'll be up to.

Keep you posted!

---

by: South Shore Republican @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 05:36:21 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Don't pack much... (0.00 / 0)

...You don't get a lot of space ;-)

"Don't let me get away with it. Check me out. Don't be the sucker generation." -Ronald Reagan

www.inBrockton.com

---

by: BrocktonDave @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 20:49:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Glad you're ticked off. With friends like you, the MassGOP didn't need any enemies. (2.50 / 2)

Keep up the good work of showing that the mainstream Republican party rejects right-wing extremism.  

---

by: republicanvoices @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 17:42:28 PM UTC

Get over yourself, please (5.00 / 1)

Good God.  Please don't let your version of "perfect" ruin the "very good".  

Do you even realize we're living in the most left-wing state in the nation?  I'm not sure there's anyone living here that would fit your version of the perfect conservative, not to mention willing to run for office.

Whoever we put up has to win in this People's Republic, after all.  Tisei is a good man, fiscally conservative and very electable.   While we don't all have to agree with him all the time, we should stand behind Charlie and him because they give us the best chance to win.

---

by: jeffc65 @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 18:01:26 PM UTC

Tisei is not "Very Good" (5.00 / 3)

He is not even half a loaf.

I am not asking for a perfect conservative.  I am asking for someone who is not a perfect liberal.  He is to the left of many Democrats.  Where I grew up Tisei (R) is the Senator and Jim Dwyer (D) is the State Rep.  Dwyer is more Conservative than Tisei.  In a head up election I would vote for Dwyer and I have never voted for a Democrat in my life.

Tisei is not fiscally conservative.  He opposes the income tax rollback and supports government run health care.  He even actively campaigns against the few spending line items that even Deval Vetoes (Zoos?)

BTW:  Welcome to RMG.

Bob Hedlund for Minority Leader.

---

by: Mike "DD4RP" Rossettie @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 20:48:08 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You are obsessed with Tisei. (0.00 / 0)

DD4RP - Not sure what you do for work or where your animosity is coming from but you seem to have an unhealthy obsession with Tisei.  Focus on beating Democrats - not Republicans.

We are voting for the top of the ticket.  Your choice is Baker or 4 more years of socialism.  Mihos does not stand a chance.

I have lived in Tisei's district for 24 years.  I was registered Democrat and voted Democrat for many of the years he was State Rep. - but when he ran for Senate, his opponents (Festa, Clark) were so left-wing they were off the plane and I went Independent.

I may not agree with Tisei 100%, but he is a Republican that has changed the political demographics of his district and proves that with hard work, he can win people over and win.

After reading all of your posts, I am beginning to think that there is something else behind your obsession.

Trying finding something good to say - like the finance numbers the Bakerr campaign reported today.  He is outraising Deval by big margins.

---

by: new republican @ Sat Dec 05, 2009 at 13:53:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

SAYING Tisei is a fiscal conservative over and over doesn't actually make it so... (5.00 / 3)

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

---

by: Peter Porcupine @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 20:52:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Who are you? (5.00 / 1)

I get the idea behind blogs and the need or want to be anonymous. That being said, this post is irresponsible given the unwillingness to place the names of the supporters on the post or the referenced website.

Agree or disagree, but have the balls to identify yourself.  

"Never, never, never give up" - Winston Churchill

---

by: David Whelan @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 18:21:41 PM UTC

The Mindset of No (5.00 / 1)

I think the GOP is very guilty of shreiking NO and not offering alternatives.  This 'Dump Tisei' is a perfect example.

Dump him for what?  An empty seat?  There will be a Lt. Governor, and we all can decide who it will be, as candidates can do nothing more than indicate a preference.

Why no 'Elect Fred', instead of dump Richard?

Putting up a post like this whn you have zero alternative to offer is plain foolish.  Work to find a candidate you like, insted of 'saving' anything.

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

---

by: Peter Porcupine @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 18:33:16 PM UTC

Look Tisei sucks, but who else do you have in mind to run for LG? (0.00 / 0)

I checked out your site and couldn't find any names.  Do you have anyone in mind, do you have any prospects?  

Also I was looking for the all important "About Us" tab, but found nothing.  Who are you and how many are in your organization?  

Don't get me wrong, Tisei sucks, but  

Before I give you/DumpTisei.com my name and address, I need to know who you are.

"Paula Jones was and is trailer-trash" -SomervilleTom

http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/...

---

by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 18:52:37 PM UTC

Why dump him? (0.00 / 0)

First let's start with the fact that Baker is at the top of the ticket and not Tisei.  While I'm sure Baker will use Tisei as a valued ad visor and partner in the administration at the end of the day Baker is making the calls.  So this whole thing seems pretty trivial to me, but what the heck - I'll give it the old college try.  

Are we (as Republicans) trying to dump Tisei for filing amendments regularly during budget season pushing cost-savings reforms in administering state gov't? Maybe it's because during a fiscal crisis he tried to put a hiring freeze in place? Or is it because he tried freezing salaries and bonuses? The more I think of it, I bet it's because he led the fight in the Senate opposing the sales tax increase!

The guy has been hammering at Democrats for years. I'm not about to watch Senate debate, but I'd love to see someone here take a look at how much time he spends railing on the democrats during debate.  

If we spent as much time trying to get Republican help in the legislature as we do fighting against getting an LG candidate, Tisei might have been able to talk about all the Republican successes he's had in the legislature.  Unfortunately, with 5 votes they weren't able to do much.  Heaven forbid we focus on getting people elected.    

---

by: Blaine @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 19:41:13 PM UTC

There is no "Ticket" (5.00 / 3)

Just to clarify, again, who the Gubernatorial nominee is and who the LG nominee is are decided by the Primary.  If you're voting for Baker (like me) you're not 'required' to vote for Tisie.

I'm confused why everyone thinks it's so great that we have Primaries for Auditor and Governor (so far), but we even talk about a LG primary, and everyone's panties get into a bunch.

Is it because all you Tisie boosters know that Dick Tisie is a walking, talking Primary Attack Ad with 25 years of fodder to choose from?

If Dick Tisie is such a Juggernaut, then this primary shouldn't be an issue.  However, if he can't win a primary with Charlie Baker backing him, he doesn't deserve to be LG.


Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro

---

by: Paul R. Ferro @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 20:13:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Great Point (0.00 / 0)

You don't have to vote for a ticket until the general election.  You can vote for Baker and against Tisei if you so choose.

Bob Hedlund for Minority Leader.

---

by: Mike "DD4RP" Rossettie @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 20:50:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Or vote for Mihos and Tesei (0.00 / 0)

That's my plan.  Reject Baker, because he chose Tesei, but elect Tesei, because he can do less harm in the LG spot than he can in the state Senate.  That district can surely replace him with a better Republican.

---

by: John Howard @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 19:21:08 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Dumb Post (0.00 / 0)

This district will elect a Democrat unfortunately to replace Tisei.

And Tisei constituents have elected him 13 times.

Gee - maybe not everyone wants to dump him.

You can rant, obsess and dream all you want - but if the votes are not there for a Republican (and there is no quality candidate) then a Democrat will win.

If you thought Tisei was a liberal, which is he is not on all issues - then wait to you see the Dems who run to replace him.

---

by: new republican @ Sat Dec 05, 2009 at 13:58:16 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

He was different when he was first elected. (0.00 / 0)

---

by: John Howard @ Sat Dec 05, 2009 at 18:38:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Judgement. (0.00 / 0)

As a Baker supporter, doesn't the Tisei pick make you question Baker's judgment?

---
"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

---

by: Patrick @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 00:46:06 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes.... (5.00 / 2)

....and I told him so, to his face, at a fundraiser for him at which I was a member of the Host Committee AND I told him I would support a primary challenger in the LG race.

Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro

---

by: Paul R. Ferro @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 01:42:09 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Correction (0.00 / 0)

There is no primary for auditor. From what I hear, Kamal Jain is running as an independent.

Alex S.
Chairman of the Springfield RCC
Mandate to Lead!!! lol

---

by: SpringfieldGOPSec @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 01:38:08 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Stroll is running. (5.00 / 1)

You've not been reading the Weekly money report posts I see.

Full Disclosure


http://www.redmassgroup.com/pr...

---

by: Rob "EaBo Clipper" Eno @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 03:01:48 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

no :( (0.00 / 0)

and I am ashamed. Would you happen to have his website & contact info?

Alex S.
Chairman of the Springfield RCC
Mandate to Lead!!! lol

---

by: SpringfieldGOPSec @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 04:31:01 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Baker HOPES to be at the top of the ticket - every day's new adventure makes that less inevitable. (0.00 / 0)

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

---

by: Peter Porcupine @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 20:47:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Dump Tisei is a lame website..........n/t (0.00 / 0)

If you disagree with me you are a racist homophobe.

---

by: Vote3rdpartynow @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 20:04:15 PM UTC

Dump Tisei? Then put up a candidate instead of a website. (5.00 / 1)

---

by: Festus Garvey @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 20:19:26 PM UTC

Damn it Festus! Do you mind!! (0.00 / 0)

This is a family dispute. [Joke]

: )

"Paula Jones was and is trailer-trash" -SomervilleTom

http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/...

---

by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 22:19:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

So... (0.00 / 0)

..what are we supposed to do at the convention? If I can't in good conscience vote for Richard Tisei, and I don't have another option, what do I do?  

---

by: wendywalter @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 20:22:04 PM UTC

Answer (0.00 / 0)

You can pretend you are in Kansas or Oz like the some of the other bloggers on this web site instead of Massachusetts.

I know I am new to being a Registered Republican (less than one month) but is this really what the party is like on the inside.

If it is, no wonder we have so few elected Republicans in this state and people drank the kool-aid and elected "together we can" in 2006.

Wendy - you're real question is, "if I can't win my way - should I throw a tantrum and pick up all my marbles and quit the game."

The answer is "only if you want more Democrats and more kool aid".

---

by: new republican @ Sat Dec 05, 2009 at 14:03:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I've got it: (5.00 / 1)

Ryan Fattman for LG.  

---

by: wendywalter @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 20:23:40 PM UTC

What about (2.00 / 1)

Candidates for treasurer, secretary of state or attorney general before we have 12 way contested LG primary?

I can understand if you disagree with Tisei on issues, but to make him the singular issue of the Republican Party isn't too bright.  A contested primary for LG is fine, but if it is the only focus then what is the real goal of the party.  

Tisei has got himself elected 13 times, none of the other potential candidates mentioned on this site can claim that, you may disagree with his positions on some of the issues, and some of you on almost all of the issues important to you, but the level of outrage seems to indicate that this is a one-issue assault, and we know what that one-issue is.  Tisei is a strong candidate with a large network and is a good campaigner; it will be interesting to see what the money looks like on January 1st and how bold people will be if his fundraising is as good as advertised.  

---

by: Boston Insider @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 20:45:48 PM UTC

Really, what is it? (5.00 / 1)

To be clear:

I voted for Dan Garbauskas.
I voted for him in a contested Republican primary.
I don't care about his private life.
I don't care about Tisei's private life.
I was against Tisei before he came out.

I care about his public record as a Senator.
I care about the way he votes.
I care about the bills he sponsors.
I care about his public issue positions that he puts in the papers.

There is no "one issue assult."  You are using this as a distraction because his positions on the issues are not defensible.  instead, why don't you defend his left wing agenda.

Also, welcome to Red Mass Group.

Bob Hedlund for Minority Leader.

---

by: Mike "DD4RP" Rossettie @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 21:06:01 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yeah - Definitely Obsessed (0.00 / 0)

Another post - another obsession.

---

by: new republican @ Sat Dec 05, 2009 at 14:04:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

First of all... (0.00 / 0)

welcome to the Party.

The GOP is a party of ideas.  Unlike the Democratic Party, which is (and has been since it's founding under Andrew Jackson) a Patronage Party (Vote for Us, and we'll give you stuff), the modern GOP is held together by idealogical coalitions.

Pro-Gun Folks working with Pro-Lifers working with Tax Cutters working with....etc...etc... to get commonly supported cadidates elected.

DD4RP, and others, myself included, object to Dick Tisei's candidacy because he is lacking on so many different issues that bind our Party together.

I can accept that there are going to be Republican candidates that I don't agree with 100% of time, but that's OK, because I know on that 80% we agree on, that person is going to do good things.

I don't agree with Dick Tisei at all.  He's not a tax cutter, in fact, he's voted against tax cuts.  He somehow manages to be a "Republcican" and get worse scores than many Democrats from CLT.

He's horrible on abortion.  He's horrible on Traditional Marriage.  Heck, he sponsored the damn Bathroom Bill!

We, humble bloggers all, many of us with vast service to our Party, and electoral experience, DARED to question him as a candidate, 10 months before the Primary no less, and the House Leader called some of us "Gutless wonders."

Brad Jones would know.  He's the most Gutless State Rep and Minority Leader we've had on the GOP side in a long time.

If these are the "Leaders" who have brought the Party I have devoted my entire adult life to build to ruin, the "Leaders" who have brought us to 10% in the House and 12% in the Senate, I say it's time for New Leaders.

I think it's good that there are people who ask questions, and inquire of those who have led are party to ruin in this state.

If that is "obsession" than we need more people who are obsessed.

If I have to get down on my hands and knees and beg someone to run for LG vs. Tisei (and I have!) again and again, I will.

Because I won't leave my party in the hands of a Leftist like Dick Tisei and a Fool like Brad Jones anymore.

Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro

---

by: Paul R. Ferro @ Sun Dec 06, 2009 at 01:55:30 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not Cool Cal (2.00 / 1)

Cal, you & I probably see eye to eye much more often than not.  Heck, we've been at the State House together on at least a couple of occasions lobbying for socially conservative positions on controversial issues.

I will say that, to me, it's not really cool to resurrect a dying thread by front paging it after it was falling off the front of the screen.  

Hey, it's well within your power but...really, it's a rather cheap & easy way out.  I won't even argue your post here but going to the lengths to front page (or was that re-front page) the diary after time had run its course.... whoa.

---

by: BNCordeiro @ Sun Dec 06, 2009 at 02:21:29 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

123 posts is not a petty post ! Falling off ? (0.00 / 0)

---

by: politicalmadman @ Sun Dec 06, 2009 at 02:31:14 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes, Falling Off (0.00 / 0)

As diaries are added, older ones are pushed down the screen & eventually fall off - quite literally.

123 posts is fine, and the easy money is that it will grow - but of course, Cool Cal made sure that it would by front paging the old news.  I didn't say it wasn't a valid discussion...but it was a device by an anti-Tisei person to make sure that the drum beat continues.

---

by: BNCordeiro @ Sun Dec 06, 2009 at 02:47:54 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

well... (0.00 / 0)

First, it's Saturday Night, and FOIR's are boring.

Second, this "dying post" had 20 new Comments today, more than every post 'above it"

Third, it's the second most heavily commented post on RMG ever (#1 was the original Tisei LG pick Post) so I don't consider this a "dying post".

Fourth, Baker HQ is still getting angry phone calls.  It's still topical

Fifth, Brad Jones had harsher critic of the site in question than he did for three indicted Democratic Speakers, and that's just F'd up.

Six, this is the biggest issue in the MassGOP right now.  Yes, I know there's a Primary next Tuesday, but this is more topical.

Finally, Controversy Creates Ratings, and nothing brings joy to my heart more than how excited Eabo gets when GoogleAd Revenue increases by $1.  He's like a kid on Christmas.  It's adorable.


Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro

---

by: Paul R. Ferro @ Sun Dec 06, 2009 at 02:42:26 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Shock Treatment (0.00 / 0)

It is eh?  I would've thought that some of our other brouhahas would've been bigger.  The "dying post" was just that... rotting on the vine as it was replaced by newer topics.  Yes, it still had life but it was hardly the breaking, cutting edge story it was a couple days ago.  It's am important topic to discuss, but you've put it on life support by front paging it - again - with the paddles (CLEAR!)

The real shame is that you're absolutely right on #6 - with A US SENATE SPECIAL PRIMARY on TUESDAY - you would think that, oh I don't know... WE COULD FOCUS on oh, I don't know... SCOTT BROWN versus JACK E. ROBINSON?!

No, I'm not trying to distract from Tisei for Richard's sake but dammit... how about we have 123 posts on how we can elect the next US Senator and make that senator a REPUBLICAN!!!

Yes, I'm sorry Jack but despite a recent deluge of mailings & a phone call - to my mother, but not oddly enough to my father & I who actually are registered Republicans - I'm going to VOTE SCOTT BROWN ON TUESDAY!

True, controversy creates ratings but you rigged the Nielsen's with this one Cal.  But hey, if it's simply a matter of GoogleAd revenue then I suppose for Eabo's sake it's all good.  :)  

---

by: BNCordeiro @ Sun Dec 06, 2009 at 02:53:45 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Stupid strategy, stupid politics... (5.00 / 1)

Better to put your efforts behind finding an alternative candidate don't you think? This is also bad for our image. We should'nt be known as just the party of "no" all the time. These kind of "Dump XYZ" candidate efforts are far more work than they are worth and they are stupidly negative.  

---

by: PEMGOP @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 20:58:06 PM UTC

Why not try this plan ... (5.00 / 2)

If you really want to dump Tisei, here is a sure fire formula for achieving your objective:

1. Find someone qualified in point of religion, property and residence in the commonwealth (yes, religion, look it up!)

2. Have that individual get the vote of 15 percent or more of the delegates to the convention of the Republican party of Massachusetts.

3. Make sure that individual has collected at ;east the required number of signatures.

4. Make sure that individual gets more votes in the Republican primary of September 8, 2010.

Done!

There you have it.  Easy peasey!

---

by: yankeepundit @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 21:39:11 PM UTC

Step 2 is easy, (0.00 / 0)

"Not Tisei" gets over 15%.  If he is unopposed there will be more than 15% blanks.

Bob Hedlund for Minority Leader.

---

by: Mike "DD4RP" Rossettie @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 21:42:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

If only... (0.00 / 0)

...someone could  set up some sort of way to collect the names and addresses of hundreds, if not thousands of folks who oppose Tisie's candidacy that then could be presented to a potential Primary opponent as proof they would have support in a race.

Say, oh, I don't know....a website or some such....


Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro

---

by: Paul R. Ferro @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 21:49:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Ah, time to rearrange the deck chairs again? (2.50 / 2)

First of all, you do realize your candidate has to win a general election?  And that during the salad years of the party from 1990-on the easiest way to lose the primary was to win the convnetion (that is to say: our convention goers, and I've been once since I was 19) are waaaaaay out of touch with the electorate.  The fact that you are worked up about Tisei tells me that he's probably acceptable to the mainstream of Republican voters.

Secondly: Senator Tisei's positions stack up pretty consistently with Senator Cellucci's positions when he was tabbed as Weld's LG, when you consider the times (gay adoption was an issue in the late '80s, now it's gay marriage).

Which leads me to: Thank you DD4RP for continuing to ensure the Republican party in Massachusetts will be a minority party...  Let me guess - Tisei's on the ticket and you'll vote for Cahill?  B-R-A-V-O (slow Homer Simpson-style clap).  Thanks for another four years of democratic governors.

The point is: Tisei is a fiscal conservative with occassional votes that you may not like.  He's also a more classic libertarian type republican which are the types that do well in Massachusetts (Bill Weld, Paul Cellucci, Bob Hedlund, etc...).  

So, would you rather he be Right (as in right wing) or Elected?

---

by: WeldforPrez @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 22:29:43 PM UTC

Right (0.00 / 0)

Definitely right.

"Paula Jones was and is trailer-trash" -SomervilleTom

http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/...

---

by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 22:33:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Ok, I'll bite (5.00 / 1)

I am not taking a side in the Tisei argument because I don't want to get caught up in this giant shitstorm but when anyone throws the word "libertarian" up on these here pages my ears perk up. I have to chime in here...

How can you call someone a "classic libertarian" when they voted against the income tax roll back? (not the repealing the whole thing but the 2000 vote to cut it from 5.9% to 5%) Just because someone supports gay marriage or abortion doesn't make them a libertarian. There is more to it.

You throw in the names of Bill Weld, Paul Cellucci, and Bob Hedlund. Weld and Hedlund often identified themselves as libertarians. They've proven their small "l" libertarian credentials and I don't have to list them here.

I'll allow Cellucci in this because he provided much of the backing for the 2000 income tax roll back. I've always thought of Cellucci as more moderate but I'll give him an honorary degree.


"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

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by: Garrett Quinn @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 22:39:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well, it's a matter of degrees, I guess (1.33 / 3)

Tisei's always been more protective of privacy rights and limiting government so I'm tilting him toward the "classic libertarian".  Granted, not a perfect description for him.

As for the tax rollback - I'm of several minds on the tax rollback.  simply voting to cut taxes does not a libertarian make.  A cheaper government can be just as intrusive and abusive as a fatter government.

And of course, nobody who's actually elected to anything is a real libertarin...  

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by: WeldforPrez @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 22:48:45 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I sooooooooo want some of what y ou're on (0.00 / 0)

How can you call someone who voted against the 2000 income tax roll back a libertarian?

I am eagerly waiting to read this one.  

"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

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by: Garrett Quinn @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 14:27:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Go and look at the vote... (0.00 / 0)

It was one vote.  Tisei was a co-sponsor of the amendment.  For whatever reason he voted against it, he sided with Senator Lees to try to do another roll-back amendment later in the same session.

There are plenty of tax cut and roll-back votes throughout the years in the legislature.  I have no idea how he voted on them all, but I'm going to cut the guy a little slack on one vote that he may have voted "wrong" on for reasons other than he was against the tax rollback.

Everybody loves to talk about his 43% rating from CLT that one year, but how about the rest of ratings?  The lowest I saw was 80%.  

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by: WeldforPrez @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 19:38:40 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Follow the link (0.00 / 0)

The can be found if you follow the link I provided in the original post.  80% was not the lowest.  

For example, More recently in the 2005-2006 session it was 67%.  Yes, that's over 50% but it's hardly the fantastic fiscal conservative some people are trying to pretend he is.  It was still tied for dead last (with Tarr) among all Republicans in the House or Senate.  It's unlikely that it's base on local needs either.  Brad Jones shares his district and had a 90% rating.

Bob Hedlund for Minority Leader.

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by: Mike "DD4RP" Rossettie @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 20:40:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

80%?! (0.00 / 0)

Listen, do you know how hard it is for a Republican to get anything less than a 90% rating from CLT--I mean the way they count votes ridiculous!  Look at the House side (and Bob Hedlund, Scott Brown, etc.) and you'll see that everyone is in the 90+%.  80% is an awful, abysmal rating.

Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.

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by: Dr. Jones @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 04:34:59 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not occational votes (5.00 / 1)

Regular left wing votes.  Sponsoring of left wing legislation.  Actively campaign for left wing legislation.

The left wing model over the past 20 years has lead us down a path of ruin.  If has lead us to smaller number each election cycle.  If you want to know how to beat the Dems, look at the people who have actually done in since the 1990 wave.  They can tell you how to win.

George Peterson, Jeff Perry, Lew Evangelidis and Vinny DeMacedo have actually beaten incumbent Democrats during that time.  Follow those models and you can win.  Any one of those candidates would be great.

Tisei is no libertarian.  I am deeply entrenched in the liberty movement withing the Massachusetts Republican party.  Everyone I talk to in that ilk is as upset with this pick as I am.  Tisei is a big fan of big government.  Being a leftist on social issues doesn't make you a libertarian.  Supporting limited government does.

...and, as always, welcome to Red Mass Group.

Bob Hedlund for Minority Leader.

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by: Mike "DD4RP" Rossettie @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 22:50:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wrong (5.00 / 1)

...on so many levels!

First, you need only look to Grabauskas-Herzfelder to see that the convention mirrored the electorate.  The Rappaport/Healey was so short that was more of an anomaly.  Go back to the list--Cellucci-Malone, Weld-Pierce, the convention foretold the electorate.

Secondly, I may not be one, but I don't know any classic libertarian types who would vote for universal health care as part of the constitution; public funding for Planned Parenthood; or against a tax cut.

Bob Hedlund is totally different than Paul Cellucci or Bill Weld, if you don't believe me, just ask Joe Malone, the guy he endorsed in 1998.  Hedlund is also known for endorsing Ron Paul on the radio--Cellucci I think may have had another candidate in that race.

Go sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up over here.

Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.

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by: Dr. Jones @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 01:08:07 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well, actually: (5.00 / 1)

1990:

Convention winners: Pierce, Torklidsen, Carbone, and Dan Daly.
Primary winners: Weld, Cellucci, Sawyer, and Jim Rappaport.

Same thing happened (for various reasons) with the 86, 82, and 78 gubernatorials.

Paul Cellucci was the Acting Governor, I would hope he would have beaten Malone at the convention.

Tisei (and really, I'm not a Tisei apologist, I just don't want our party to go into the rathole of ad hominum self-destruction that this Dump Tisei website reeks of) has always been much more liberal on health care type issues, so I'm not surprised (well, maybe a little) by that vote.

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by: WeldforPrez @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 19:49:50 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Hah Hah! The funniest thing about all this . . . (5.00 / 2)

Whenever something like this happens, there are all kinds of new people that suddenly start posting to RMG. Cool.  

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by: WhatWouldReaganDo @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 22:53:27 PM UTC

Love it (0.00 / 0)

"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

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by: Garrett Quinn @ Wed Dec 02, 2009 at 23:02:28 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I have a theory on this... (0.00 / 0)

...back even in 2002, if you wanted to challenge the "Establishment pick" you had to run a lengthy, expensive campaign where you contacted as many delegates as possible.

Now, folks can set up a website, and in a few short days, have folks give you the information you would normally have to pry out of folks hands.

Blogs feed into that.  So when the vast majority of regular users of this blog (for example) are against something, it quickly spreads.  So the other side thinks "well, if I get people to AstroTurf the site, it will look like there's a divide.  Suddenly, it's the Invasion of the Sock Puppets!


Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro

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by: Paul R. Ferro @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 01:48:01 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Right church, wrong pew... (5.00 / 1)

As you say, the letters and telephone calls and expensive contact was de rigeur.  As a consequence, while there was much grumbling, it stayed underground (and the voters left us, didn't they?).

As late as 2006, I had Wiser Ones explaining to me that this newfangled email crap was useless, as out BASE was older and didn't use computers.  Let alone blogs.  And until RMG, there WERE no message boards in MA (I was on a few national conservative boards, but when they found out I claimed to be from Mass., I was shunned as a fraud or psychopath).

The Establishmetn went on fiddling and making firefighting choices for us all.

Now - when there is dissent, it CAN be given a voice quickly and economically.  Top down 'leadership' is in for a surprise if it thinks it can contine to ignore the rank and file by airily asserting 'inevitability'.

I honestly tbhink there is more bona fide dissent from crabby grass roots than astro turfing.

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 02:35:59 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Maybe we need a round table. (1.00 / 1)

As I read the debate, here is all I can think of.
When we all, as a PARTY, serve eachother, we will progress.
Until then, everyone is fighting over the seat at the head of the table

Maybe we need a round table.

The Round Table.

The High Council meets here.

No head. No foot.
Everyone equal... even the King.

"In serving each other,
we become free."

That is the very heart of Camelot.

Not these stones. Timbers.
Towers, palaces.

Burn them all...
and Camelot lives on.

Because it lives in us.
It's a belief we hold in our hearts.

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by: VESuggestions @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 00:31:42 AM UTC

Ah, so true VE, so true, for oh so long too. All over wht can you put in my pocket. (0.00 / 0)

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by: politicalmadman @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 03:23:32 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

LOL - VESuggestions is getting in touch with his feminine side! (0.00 / 0)

BWA BWA BWAAAAAAAAAA  LOL

Group hug  Group hug

"Paula Jones was and is trailer-trash" -SomervilleTom

http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/...

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by: Republican Ram Rod Radio @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 15:06:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

No kidding...VE sounds like a Democrat... (0.00 / 0)

...I mean, "serve eachother, we will progress"...or"In serving each other,
we become free."  My God, did marriage make him a Democrat?

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by: Festus Garvey @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 20:28:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

*sign* (0.00 / 0)

It is called a "Party" for a reason, and for some additional reason Republicans seem to think it is about whom can get highest by stepping over each other faster. That is not what out Party is about.

If we had a round table, and the discussion occurred, I am sure no one would be running such a web page. If we had an environment of leadership by inclusion, we cna avoid such instances.

I know that people are upset, but it seems more to be about not having had any input in the pick than the pick itself. For crying out loud, do you know how many little "Cold Wars" are going on within the State Party?  All over scraps too small to be even fighting over.  

Remove the players for a moment, take the identities out of the situation. It could be the process, and not the particulars that are flawed.  

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by: VESuggestions @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 21:31:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Your third paragraph... (0.00 / 0)

...reminds me of a quote (and if anyone can cite the original source, that would be great) about politics of a faculty senate are so personal and brutal because the issues they discuss are so petty and unimportant.  

Of course if you rewrote the 2nd paragraph, it could easily be attributed to Obama and his attempts at bipartisanship.

But seriously VE, you are advocating the liberal view that individuals can rise above their personal interests and act in the common good, whereas conservatives view the individual pursuit of their self-interest will advance the "common good".  The truth lies somewhere in the middle and continuously shifts, so stop nailing jelly to a tree and deal with the situation...

Besdes, there are a few hundred thousand Republican voters who won't be at the inclusionary "table" that you seem to think will solve all the problems.  

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by: Festus Garvey @ Sat Dec 05, 2009 at 16:24:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Festus Wrong again...but thats ok (4.00 / 1)

First, and Festus, I am just clarifying, I am not insulting you. While I may put some passion behind this, don't mistake it for anything more than that.

You are not talking to a Neanderthal. The stereotype of Republicans not being well read, or thoughtful, or hypocrites, is not true. And especially it is not true that Republican is not or cannot be selfless for the common good. What Party serves in the armed forces? What are the highest per capita charitable giving states? Massachusetts is last, Red states are first.

You cannot take your opinion and apply it as fact about an entire group of people. That is called racism. That is why "creed" or belief system, is protected.

Liberals believe conservatives need to have an open mind and that liberals can keep theirs closed because they are always right. How is that working out for you on Global Warming?

And I have written the third paragraph before, so I guess I am plagiarizing myself.

The fact is, when you join any group of like minded people, OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL  (Freedom of Association, in the Bill of Rights), you have to accept that working together to achieve this goal is the best way to ensure you are allowed to be an individual. Plenty of Republicans in the Military understand this, and thank GOD they do for all our sake.

For an instance in terms of civilians, Republicans understand they need to pay taxes. What we Republicans do not agree with is how MUCH taxes need to be paid by us and for what purpose.

My point is, we as Republicans within the Party structure need to act more like the structure of Camelot.
Just because someone is a Republican does not mean they can be ignored because they are not the right kind. I say this referring to all spectrums of the Republican Party.

I am very fortunate to have friends on both sides of this whole debate. Both sides make valid points. I get lots of calls, and while I keep their confidences, I know that both sides are very rational, but also passionate about how they see the situation. No one is totally right or wrong.

I see that this is a failure of a structure where leadership leads by example. And the structure has evolved over years. It is no one person's fault, but we all need to accept that the current structure is not working, nor is it healthy for the Party.

And progress starts by recognizing the problem.  

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by: VESuggestions @ Sat Dec 05, 2009 at 21:25:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Dump Tisei (0.00 / 0)

The pick just does not make any sense. Why Tisei? He has been in office for over 20 years and has little to show for it except for eating time. This doesn't help Baker in any margin. He is just another politician from the North Shore, not exactly picking up a region/area for Baker since he is from Swampscott. Why not Perry? Evangelides? Polito? De Macedo? Or how come this pick had to be made this early? Why not wait till say February and go for Scott Brown? And this isn't even getting into policy issues that are troubling. Seems to me that they are panicking over at the Baker camp.

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by: no2socialism @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 03:55:19 AM UTC

Why now? (0.00 / 0)

Simple. Fund raising. A month to get people to max out for this year, then max out for next year too. And the only shore Wakefield has is around that big pond. Granted Tisei's from the same general area, but I don't consider Malden, Melrose, Stoneham, Wakefield, Reading and Lynnfield North Shore. This area is one of the few represented by Republicans in both the House and the Senate (Well at least Reading is.) so that may come into play. Brad Jones represents Reading, North Reading and Middleton so you can probably expect a fair amount of support there. Based on the straw poll in Plymouth I don't think Baker is lacking support down in that area so that may have been part of the decision. Not sure how he's doing in Metro West or who could've been tapped from that area.

Why is President Obama's Justice Dept. running guns to Mexican drug cartels, and possibly MS-13 too?

Karl (TLC)Weld

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by: TLCWeld @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 04:16:29 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You're right about Plymouth County (0.00 / 0)

...but for exactly that reason why didn't he pick an LG from down here. If there is a lot of support pick from among it, and drive up the area turnout. Its not just winning, its running up the score in your key areas. You're already driving up turnout around the North Shore/Route 1 region with Baker alone, why pick another person from this area?

Look at what Chris Christie did in NJ ... picked Kim Guadagno who hailed from a Republican base area and different geographic region than his own. Granted, I don't think this was the reason he did it, but it must have occurred to his team that it actually worked!

Bakers got a pretty good chance none the less, but politically speaking these recent moves are just erratic

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by: South Shore Republican @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 05:32:39 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

fundraising??? (0.00 / 0)

I don't think it's all about fundraising. Have you seen the numbers they are taking in? What is it now, 3 consecutive months of raising over 500K each month? He is leaving everyone in the dust, especially with his big pharma connections, country club fundraisers, construction firms donating and hedging their bets for future state deals, and out of state fundraisers. It reeks of pure panic with the polls of Deval up by 12-15 points, and Baker splitting with Cahill. He was looking for any jump in the polls. He should have waited till at least February and picked Scott Brown which would have been a home run.

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by: no2socialism @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 12:46:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes, fundraising (5.00 / 1)

Not Tisei specifically, but any running mate.

Baker has been raking in a lot of $500 checks.  The limit is $500 per calendar year.  With any LG those people can now give an additional $500 to a running mate (Fro $1,000 total).  Once Jan. 1 comes that opportunity is lost forever.

Hey - I think this pick is awful.  Of our 21 Reps and Senators he is by far my last choice.  The fundraising point isn't about who but rather when.

On the other hand, I know a number of people who have already donated, even held fundraisers, who won't be helping any more.

Bob Hedlund for Minority Leader.

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by: Mike "DD4RP" Rossettie @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 13:17:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Couple things (0.00 / 0)

1.  Why no dump tisei posts before the pick?  

2.  If his voting record is THAT bad, then would it not be prudent to have him run, as to put him in a non-voting, almost non-functional position as LG rather than an active, voting member of the Senate?  

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by: JoeTS @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 05:02:15 AM UTC

Two Answers (5.00 / 1)

1. There was no "ticket" or "pick" or "team" to "Dump Tisie" from before now.  hence, not "Dump Tisie"

2. You don't promote someone from a heartbeat from the Corner Office with a record like that.  I'm fighting this because I never want to see a 'Governor Tisie".

I would remind you that the last three GOP Nominees for LG either became the GOP Nominee for Governor or actually because Governor.

So who the LG is matters in the GOP.  If all these folks want to say that Tisie is "just like Weld-Cellucci" putting aside their historical ignorance, that says to me that they expect Dick Tisie to be the Governor some day, and that I will fight to my dying breath.

 

Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro

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by: Paul R. Ferro @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 05:20:54 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You beat me to it. (0.00 / 0)

I was going to post the exact same thing about question #2.  

---
"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

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by: Patrick @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 05:31:05 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Before Dump Tisei there was Pick Polito. (0.00 / 0)

I don't think a lot of people thought that Baker would pick Tisei.

---
"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

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by: Patrick @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 05:32:42 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

If you don't like Tisei (0.00 / 0)

Then don't vote for him.  Maybe try voting for this guy.

If you disagree with me you are a racist homophobe.

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by: Vote3rdpartynow @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 09:59:03 AM UTC

This was one of the reasons Mihos ran as an independent in 2006. There are others as well. (0.00 / 0)

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by: politicalmadman @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 12:44:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

What were they? (0.00 / 0)

I'm seriously interested in knowing why he bailed on the party and trashed our candidate and help usher in Together We Can (Axelrod's trial run for Yes We Can and Hope and Change) And I'd like to know why he thinks we should welcome him back with open arms now. What has he done in the past 3 years to earn our support. (And judging by the fundraising number not many are.)

He's virtually indistinguishable on social issues from Baker and has come out in favor of dropping the sales tax down to 3%. What else does he have in mind as solid policy to fix this sinking fiscal ship we call home. And is he speaking anywhere north of Boston? He's been invisible.

Why is President Obama's Justice Dept. running guns to Mexican drug cartels, and possibly MS-13 too?

Karl (TLC)Weld

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by: TLCWeld @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 15:03:57 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Great. It's in today's Herald. (0.00 / 0)

http://bostonherald.com/news/p...

Is there any more dirty laundry we want to put out there? May as well go "all in" and really show a fractured party. That will really get independents feeling good about supporting the GOP.

Why is President Obama's Justice Dept. running guns to Mexican drug cartels, and possibly MS-13 too?

Karl (TLC)Weld

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by: TLCWeld @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 14:26:20 PM UTC

Tisei is the one fracturing it (0.00 / 0)

Because he keeps leapfrogging many Democrats as he pushes his left wing activist agenda.

Bob Hedlund for Minority Leader.

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by: Mike "DD4RP" Rossettie @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 14:54:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Finally a winner!!! (0.00 / 0)

We finally have a candidate who can win and who will fight for all of us on Beacon Hill an you all just want to attack him for meaningless nonsense.... It is clearly obvious that the polito camp is jealous and upset that she was not picked and has chosen to take it out on the Senator. I am a Republican who has lived in Senator Tisei's district my entire life... he has done nothing but defend our freedom and yours also. 4 other republican senators who we all trust have entrusted Senator Tisei to lead them, if he is as bad as you all are putting forward then shouldn't we be attacking the other senators also who gave him the leadership position??? It is time that all of you people grow up.... Polito will not be Lt. Governor Move on

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by: Myrights1 @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 15:03:50 PM UTC

"4 other republican senators".... (0.00 / 0)

Pretty much says it all! Mr. Tsei is the de facto leader of the weakest Republican coalition in the ENTIRE COUNTRY...a pretty dubious achievement! FYI...basic philosophical differences on issues of importance to the party are HARDLY MEANINGLESS NONSENSE! It is precisely this fact that has weakened us as a Party and if you think I am wrong please explain why our numbers are so pathetic.  

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by: PEMGOP @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 15:26:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

meaningless nonsense? (5.00 / 1)

I'm glad you don't believe in anything, but I still do.

I am from Tisei's district too.  I know how he votes.  I know the legislation he sponsors.  I know the public positions he puts in the paper.  That's how I know how left wing he is.

Tisei will not fight for all of us.  He is actively leading the charge against the things so many of us believe in.

Writing in all capital letters doesn't change that.

I love when people say "He has done nothing but..." as though someone has only taken a single action over 25 years.  Very Obama-esque.  "All we're trying to do is..." as a complete distraction from the person's well documented public record of actual actions.

...and welcome to Red Mass Group.

Bob Hedlund for Minority Leader.

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by: Mike "DD4RP" Rossettie @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 15:51:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

BTW...I used all caps... (0.00 / 0)

to help make your point DD4RP!

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by: PEMGOP @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 16:28:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The Usual Suspects (0.00 / 1)

My guess for the people behind the "Dump Tisei" campaign??

Lyric Consulting.

http://www.lyricconsulting.com...

Rep. Karyn Polito has shelled out several thousand dollars to them as have several of the other State Representatives who led a failed coup against Brad Jones. They're thirsty to be relvent and Polito was listed on Baker's short list. Thankfully acting like divas was not one of the characteristics that Baker sought out.  

Check out the "expenditures" at www.mass.gov/ocpf for the documentation.

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by: The Rascal King @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 16:27:58 PM UTC

Ha! (0.00 / 0)

Why don't you stir the pot a bit?!

---

by: South Shore Republican @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 16:54:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

KP is not behind this site. (0.00 / 0)

Bob Hedlund for Minority Leader.

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by: Mike "DD4RP" Rossettie @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 17:35:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

[hidden comment] You're an idiot ... (0.00 / 5)

I'm not a frequent visitor to this website (I have a life) but whenever I have come across your posts, I think back to Al Pacino's great soliloquy in "Glengarry Glen Ross."

"You stupid fucking cunt. Williamson! I'm talking to you shithead! You just cost me $6,000. $6,000, and one Cadillac. That's right. What are you going to do about it? What are you going to do about it...asshole? You fucking shit! Where did you learn your trade, you stupid fucking cunt?! You idiot! Whoever told you that you could work with men?! Oh, I'm gonna have your job, shithead. I'm going to Mitch and Murray! And I'm going to Lemkin! I don't care whose nephew you are...who you know...whose dick your sucking on, you're going out! I'll tell you something else, I hope it was you who ripped off the joint, maybe I can tell our friends something that will help them to catch you. Any man who works here lives by his wits. I'm going to be with you in a second. What you are hired to do, is to help us. Does that seem clear to you? To HELP us. Not to FUCK US UP! To help men who are going out there to earn a living, you fairy. You company man. You want to know the first rule you'd learn if you'd ever spent a day in your life? You never open your mouth until you know what the shot is. You fucking child."

- Al Pacino as Ricky Roma in the 1992 classic "Glengarry Glen Ross"  

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by: The Rascal King @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 20:32:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Personal attacks don't change the truth. (0.00 / 0)

Bob Hedlund for Minority Leader.

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by: Mike "DD4RP" Rossettie @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 20:43:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Classy n/t (0.00 / 0)

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by: South Shore Republican @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 21:56:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Sorry I cost... you... a Cadillac? (5.00 / 1)

No, really.  My bad.  I guess I owe you a Cadillac now.

Bob Hedlund for Minority Leader.

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by: Mike "DD4RP" Rossettie @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 11:53:29 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Nah. He ain't worth nothing but the steak knives... (0.00 / 0)

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Sat Dec 05, 2009 at 05:36:16 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Rule #1 (0.00 / 0)

of campaigning would suggest that you don't emphasize the negative of your opponent but promote the positives of yourself.  I don't think a Polito who's been in for several terms would promote dumptisei but try and highlight the pickpolito site.  BUt I could be wrong--thoughts?

Also, it looks pretty bare-bones--I bet it's someone who can just whip something like that together--not a professional group, but it's interesting.  Any thoughts on whether it's a Christy thing? That seems up his alley.  It's great the Herald picked up on it.  If Baker wanted to avoid something like that, he could have not "picked" Tisei in the first place--his team should have known better. I'd be questioning who's calling the shots and figure out an exit strategy for them.

Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.

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by: Dr. Jones @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 19:17:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

[hidden comment] If Baker picked someone with more conservative views on the social issues, he'd be alienating the independents/Democrats who believe the party is beholden to fundamentalists. (0.00 / 3)

By picking Tisei, he ticks off people like you. Frankly, I prefer the latter.  

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by: republicanvoices @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 19:29:28 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Why look! It's another Unsubstantiated Claim by Arvee! (5.00 / 3)

You base this on what?

Do you understand the purpose of picking a running mate?  You make me wonder.

This pick has done nothing but HURT Baker.  It will cause a primary, because it has upset various factions within the Party.  There are just so many different things for people to oppose Tisei on.  He could lose.  Based on the feedback from individuals I've spoken to, I think there's a good chance he will.

In a general election, an LG brings three things.  

1. Geographic Balance
2. Volunteers (a "machine")
3. ideological Balance (Throw a Party Faction a bone).

Tisei doesn't bring geographic balance, because he's from the same area as Baker.  He brings limited volunteers, because he was already Bakers Campaign Chairman.  If he had any network, he mobilized them weeks ago for Baker.  Finally, there is ideological balance.  A Liberal Republican picks a Conservative, or vice versa, a Conservative picks a Liberal.  Appeal to everyone in a Party.  Tisei doesn't do that.  He actually has angered and mobilized folks to actively campaign against him.

"but he'll appeal to Democrats" How?  Everyone here keeps saying that Tisei's record is just like Bakers.  That they are both mainstream moderate Republicans (they're not.  Baker is actually to the Right of Tisei on Abortion, Taxes, and School choice).

How are two candidates who have the same issue profile going to attract new voters?  "I wasn't going to vote for the Liberal Republican until he picked a Liberal Republican as his running mate".  That's nonsensical.

You DO realize that there's an actual Democrat running, right?  You also realize that there's a former Democrat who is going to try to run as a "conservative Democrat" (a Massachusetts Blue Dog, if you will) in the General.

Tisei brings nothing to the table electorally.  He brings no new pool of voters (be they conservative or liberal), no geographic balance, and no volunteers.  The only thing he will bring is a World of Hurt for the next ten months to the Baker Camp.  

That is bad electorally.


Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro

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by: Paul R. Ferro @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 20:12:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

and BTW... (0.00 / 0)

People who followed Bob Parks around like a puppy for two months back in 06-07' shouldn't be calling other peoples judgement into question.

Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro

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by: Paul R. Ferro @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 20:14:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Fundamentalists like...Weld...Cellucci...Swift... (0.00 / 0)

Yeah because in MA, we're real beholden to fundamentalists--you had practically all the Senate Republicans voting against the marriage amendment and there are about 2 reliable pro-life votes in the House and they're both Dems.  I mean Baker's brother is freaking "married" to another guy, I hardly think you need to pick someone to the left of that to appeal to moderates.  Moderates are actually to the right of Tisei.

Nice try.  So, if I change my tune, can I get a job with you on the campaign?

Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.

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by: Dr. Jones @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 04:41:03 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Sorry. Guess again. (5.00 / 2)

I'm very sorry to disappoint you, Rascal King, as you are obviously very "thirsty" to place blame on someone.

Unfortunately, you will have to look elsewhere, because Lyric Consulting is not in any way responsible for www.dumptisei.com. We were not involved in the creation of this Web site and we're not involved in its maintenance.

As such, it sounds like you have bigger things to worry about, and a lot of work to do.

Fred Van Magness, Co-owner
Lyric Consulting

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by: FredVanMagness @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 20:44:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

[hidden comment] When you post on a blog, Lyric makes sure they read it! (0.00 / 2)

Wow ... that didn't take you long to launch an emergency rebuttal.

Could it be that you, your company, and your acolytes patrol this website daily launching smear attacks against your client's opponents?

As such, I am not the one who has anything to worry about since I don't have to bear the burden of failing to get GOP candidates elected to office.

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by: The Rascal King @ Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 20:58:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Understand but can't agree (3.50 / 2)

I understand the motivation and temptation to engage in a "Dump Tisei" drive.  It's not a hard sell to some conservatives and I deeply respect the opinion of those who wish to engage in just such an endeavor.  I will not say that they are wrong to believe as they do, but I cannot & will not join with them.

No, Richard Tisei is not my ideological soulmate.  No, on some important issues Richard Tisei & I are diametrically opposed.  No doubt about it.  Yes, Tisei knows it full well.  On other issues, perhaps I'm a bit more of a radical Republican.  

I'm tempted to join the cause to rally and rage against Tisei.  Sure, you could proverbially dump a tea bag effigy of Tisei into the Boston harbor.  Heck, one of the ships was the Dartmouth so maybe I should rally to new party, but I won't.

I won't for a few simple reasons:

The first of which is we have a primary process.  If a dyed in the wool, rock ribbed, firebrand conservative - be it socially or fiscally - wants to rise to the occasion, take out papers, and run against Richard Tisei then so be it.  As others have stated, we do not have a ticket system here in the Commonwealth.  Simply because Charlie Baker tapped Richard Tisei to be his running mate doesn't make it so.  Richard Tisei has not been anointed by the holy one but rather selected by a party candidate.  If you dislike the candidacy of Richard Tisei then run, run hard, run fast, and out work, out fundraise, & I guess in this instance out conservative Tisei.

Secondly, I am a Baker supporter.  Yes, Charlie & I fail to see eye-to-eye on much of the same issues but I believe that he will be the best candidate - Republican, Democrat, or independent - for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts in 2010.  I do not view Charlie Baker as the great savior of the MassGOP.  I have no delusions that Baker is only a man & not a political messiah.  Maybe some people get caught up in that but not I.  No, I'm also not looking at Charlie Baker to be my gravy train for some high hack position.  No, I believe that Charlie Baker has the relevant life experience and inquisitive intellect to be the best gubernatorial candidate - and thus best governor - in 2010.  I've seen Charlie Baker at work, asking the right question that deeply probe the crucial issues.  If Charlie Baker has indeed tapped Richard Tisei to be his Lt. Gov. running mate then I trust his judgment.

Third, Charlie Baker & Richard Tisei has a personal history.  They're friends, they know each other.  Most importantly, they can work together.

Fourth, I happen to personally like Richard Tisei.  He's no where near my Senate district but he has taken an active interest in my area.  On numerous occasions he & I have had conversations about my district.  Heck, on one occasion he virtually offered to adopt my district as I'm currently the fiefdom of Sen. Mark Montigny.  Yes, Tisei & I have profound differences of opinion on crucial issues facing the Commonwealth.  However, yes I maintain that despite our stark differences in vital areas that there is far more that unites us rather than divides us.  I prefer to accentuate the positive and build upon those areas of common agreement.

Fifth, Richard Tisei has been in the state legislature since 1984.  For whatever our disagreements may be, Tisei brings with him a quarter century of institutional knowledge & experience.  Tisei will be invaluable to Charlie Baker (or Christy Mihos, for that matter) when it comes to working with and through the state legislature.

Sixth, Richard Tisei has proven that he can win elections in an overwhelmingly Democratic district.  Tisei has won 10 conservative races as a State Senator.  As someone who lives in what is arguably the bluest part of the bluest state, I want to find out whatever Tisei is doing right & bring it down here to the SouthCoast!

Seventh, Tisei has never supported a broad based tax increase.  Last year, Richard Tisei earned a 93% rating from CLT.  Tisei gets high marks from a plethora of business organizations including, but not necessarily limited to: the Mass High Tech Council, Mass Fed of Independent Businesses & Associated Industries of Mass.  Just recently Tisei led the opposition to the sales tax increase while also offering $1 billion in cost savings through government reform.  Remember the Easter Sunday Turnpike debacle?  Richard Tisei was at the forefront exposing mismanagement in the current administration & Mass Turnpike Authority.

Eighth, let's go down memory line.  Richard Tisei was 1 of 6 conference committee members that produced the landmark 1993 welfare reform legislation.  Tisei was the chief sponsor of the Whistleblower Protection Law.  

Ninth, I mentioned business groups earlier but Tisei also gets high marks from diverse organizations such as the Mass Council of Human Services Providers, National Alliance for Mentally Ill-Massachusetts, Mystic Valley Elder Services, the YMCA, and the Mass Silver Legislature.  These groups, and others have bestowed accolades upon Richard Tisei such as Legislator of the Year.

Tenth, while it may not be the Mihos family empire (the extent of which used to right here in the SouthCoast) but Richard Tisei is a successful small business owner.  Tisei hasn't only spent years serving the Commonwealth & MassGOP in various levels of the legislature but he has seen, first hand, how government policy affects business and we, the people.

Richard Tisei has an imperfect but solid voting record that encompass a track record of fiscal conservatism and government reform.

In conclusion, I will not "Dump Tisei" but rather stand shoulder to shoulder with him and Charlie Baker.  

As a corollary, I certainly understand why those who are collecting voter data via DumpTisei.com would want to create an activist database but I also disagree with one thing... I'm not anti-Patrick and thus pro-Republican candidate.  No, I'm pro-Baker.  Likewise, I don't believe that you can replace something with nothing.  It seems to me that this is a protest movement in search of, perhaps even groping for, a leader.  I don't need a figurehead for a movement but I do need a candidate for Lt. Gov.

No, I won't Dump Tisei - I'll fraternally correct him when I believe he's wrong, but I'd much rather work with him to build a successful coalition & winning campaign than against him.  I've never been one for fratricide.  Again, I both understand & sympathize but I neither agree nor follow.
 

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by: BNCordeiro @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 00:31:02 AM UTC

[hidden comment] Yeeeeshhhhhhhhhh (0.00 / 2)

Your such a rump-swab douchebag...please I beg of you...stop!

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by: PEMGOP @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 04:18:26 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Stop? (0.00 / 0)

Stop?  Oh no, you don't know me very well... I won't stop simply because you sling a few insults at me.  If that's the best you can do then I'm sorry but I've been here on RMG since about day 1 and I've been blogging & emailing my opinion on MassGOP related forums for over a decade.

Stop? Oh no, I've not yet begun to fight.  Don't like my opinion?  That's fine, that's why we have conventions, primaries, and indeed blogs.  However, do you think that you can slightly muster a better counter argument than a few pathetic insults?  Do you think that you may have it within yourself to try to actually counter my points, as others have, with valid arguments - or is that beyond your personal ability?

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by: BNCordeiro @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 14:24:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Ok, I apologize for the invictive but... (0.00 / 0)

You have to admit that your ongoing promotion of the Baker/Tisei ticket is a little over the top...especially given you're constant reminders of where you stand on the issues. You are going to what appears to be desperate lengths to promote Baker/Tisei based on one meeting with the guy.

I've countered your arguments numerous times here at RMG. Maybe not directly to your posts but to many others...so if you want to debate lets have at it.

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by: PEMGOP @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 16:40:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Over the top? Desperate? (0.00 / 0)

What's desperate about championing a candidate that you believe strongly in? Are the Mihos people wrong for trying to convince others he's the right choice. Are the Dump Tisei people wrong for passionately presenting their case? I for one am glad people are fired up. About something, anything. The problem with Massachusetts is the vast majority of voters are apathetic. They can't be bothered to really pay attention to what the hacks are really doing. They grumble and rant but don't DO anything about it. Qualified people don't come forward to make things better and run for office. Armchair quarterbacks are a dime a dozen. It's refreshing to see passionate people advocate for their positions and candidates. Spirited debate is good for the republic. And if you can't trumpet your beliefs on a political blog then what's the point of the blog. Many of the comments here have forced me to think about some things differently. I've tried to make, what I think are, valid arguments to points raised in these discussions. At least we're talking about these issues. At least we're fired up. I'd rather hear someone advocate for their candidate passionately, consistently and constantly than tearing someone else's down, but I respect the process of this dialogue enough to realize that people feel passionately about opposing a candidate. I just wish they offered a viable, and by that I mean electable, alternative in the process. And it's better than not saying anything at all. Too many people are doing that already. And that's why we have the mess in this state that we do.

Why is President Obama's Justice Dept. running guns to Mexican drug cartels, and possibly MS-13 too?

Karl (TLC)Weld

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by: TLCWeld @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 17:38:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Apparently armchair quarterbacks are even cheaper than we thought! (0.00 / 0)

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by: PEMGOP @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 18:28:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

One Meeting? (0.00 / 0)

I'm sorry, but I've had more than 1 meeting with both Charlie Baker & Richard Tisei.  I won't claim that either is a close buddy of mine but I've had several conversations with both gentlemen.  I've been in their presence for a great many hours.  I've sat down to meals with them.  No, I might not be invited to their personal Christmas parties, but I'm comfortable with them.

Speaking of 1 meeting, I've had exactly 3 meetings with Christy Mihos.  I spoke with him very briefly in 2006 at the gubernatorial debate at UMass Dartmouth.  I exchanged pleasantries with him at a State Committee meeting several months back.  Finally, he & I chatted for about 5 minutes or so after I appointed him to his own Yarmouth Republican Town Committee in my capacity as chairman of MassGOP Region 5 during a reorganizational meeting.  I find Christy Mihos to be a nice guy, someone who I don't know very well, and someone who - even prior to my endorsment of Charlie Baker - never really sought a personal connection or expressed a deep interest in the goings on of my district.

Charlie Baker & Richard Tisei?  I've spoken to both, at length for hours, about the needs of my district & the future of the SouthCoast.  They've asked me deeply probing questions as to how they each could better represent & support my area.  Baker has spent hours in the SouthCoast studying the area and learning its needs and trying to formulate solutions to what ails it.  At the end of the day, that's why I support Charlie Baker & Richard Tisei.  Christy Mihos is a good guy and a gentleman.  I won't say a bad word about him personally.  The difference is, while Christy Mihos may care about my Second Bristol & Plymouth district.  While Christy may care about the SouthCoast... it is Charlie Baker & Richard Tisei who have actually shown me their concern and gone the extra mile to turn their concern into more effective representation.

If you don't like either Baker or Tisei then find a candidate & go to "desperate lengths" to support him.  Maybe that is Christy Mihos, maybe it isn't.  For some here on RMG, they've jumped aboard Team Christy.  I respect that.  Sure, we disagree on the matter but I respect their personal decision and activism.  

This question may be a bit rhetorical but were you among those complaining when I went to "desperate lengths" to support Jeff Beatty over Jim Ogonowski last year?

All that said, apology accepted. :) We can move on now... lol

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by: BNCordeiro @ Sat Dec 05, 2009 at 04:19:39 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

*sigh* (0.00 / 0)

It is called a "Party" for a reason, and for some additional reason Republicans seem to think it is about whom can get highest by stepping over each other faster. That is not what out Party is about.

If we had a round table, and the discussion occurred, I am sure no one would be running such a web page. If we had an environment of leadership by inclusion, we cna avoid such instances.

I know that people are upset, but it seems more to be about not having had any input in the pick than the pick itself. For crying out loud, do you know how many little "Cold Wars" are going on within the State Party?  All over scraps too small to be even fighting over.  

Remove the players for a moment, take the identities out of the situation. It could be the process, and not the particulars that are flawed.  

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by: VESuggestions @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 21:28:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Blue-est part of the state? Really? (0.00 / 0)

Yes, because places like Arlington or Lexington are really to the right of Melrose.

If Deval Patrick registered as a Republican, would you support him?  Richard Tisei is a single issue voter--that single issue is taxes and I for one am not a single issue voter, so there is no way I'll vote for him. Unfortunately, I'm writing what I bet the majority of Republican primary voters are thinking. You won't see an LG candidate before year's end, but you will see one next year--guaranteed.

When that happens, Baker will have to throw money at the LG primary (just like Romney did) or else have egg on his face.  That could prove problematic.  Either way, Baker loses with Cahill in the race as Deval gets re-elected with 36% of the vote.  Meanwhile, you tried to get a job but sold your soul to do it and now have nothing and no reputation to show for it.

Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.

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by: Dr. Jones @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 04:49:10 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Single Issue Voters (0.00 / 0)

Well, perhaps Tisei is a single issue voter but the vast majority of his opposition are also single issue voters (or perhaps duo-issue, abortion & gay marriage).  Now, I happen to agree with those issues but if you reject it in Tisei then you must reject it in the opposition.

Perhaps Tisei will feel the heat in due time & withdraw.  I haven't seen any evidence of that but perhaps you'll be a prophet.

If Deval Patrick were a Republican, I wouldn't support him but I may not go out of my way to ravage him.  Some seem to forget that I'm a Massachusetts Republican State Committee member and as such my role is to build up a the Party rather than tear it down in public.  What I do privately, I do without the drooling mouths & prying eyes of fellow bloggers, newspaper reporters, & radio talk show hosts who feast upon intra-party, internicene warfare.

Now, on to your absurdity & pack of venomous lies that renders you completely irrelevant & utterly contemptable:

Meanwhile, you tried to get a job but sold your soul to do it and now have nothing and no reputation to show for it.  

Perhaps you are in politics for the payoff.  Perhaps you are in it for a job.  I don't know, maybe you're on the Christy Mihos payroll but I assure you that I am not getting 1 penny from Baker/Tisei nor do I expect one.  Of course, slinging around a baseless accusation is the last refuge of a coward who has absolutely nothing else in his quiver but the arrow of lies.  I don't know who you are, hiding behind your pseudonym (whereas, I'm very public with my identity) but your charge would be laughable if not for your sinister intent at character assasination of a Baker/Tisei supporter.  

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by: BNCordeiro @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 14:21:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm Sorry Brock (0.00 / 0)

How many seats has the Republicans gained in the while Tisie as Minority leader. ZERO

Either Tisie has No appeal outside his district has or no plan to win senate seats. Or he's just incompetent to win the Majority. It is one of his responsibilities as leader IMHO to win the majority or seats. He hasn't nor gained seats. He's done the opposite and lost seats. Gerrymandering excuses only go so far.

Either way I cannot and will not support Tisie for that reason and the many others listed by the bloggers here. Tisie had a fine legislative career. But his tenure as leader has gained no GOP seats in the Senate. You are proposing to reward failure by putting him 2nd in line to be GOV. I seriously cannot do that in good conscious.

Baker still has my vote so far....
Tisie does not. You haven't given enough evidence to convinced me to change it and probably never will.

" A republic if you can keep it"- Ben Franklin 1787

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by: sjfern20 @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 06:47:06 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

An Improvement (0.00 / 0)

Fern, you're already making a marked improvement.  Can't vote for Tisei?  Well, maybe you'll come around but if not - that's fine, that's what primaries are for.  That said, I remember when not too long ago you were virtually diehard against Charlie Baker & yet now:

Baker still has my vote so far....

You may not agree with me on Tisei, but it wasn't too long ago you weren't on board with me with Baker.  I'm not counting your vote juuuust yet, but I'm glad to see that you've already made the leap to "so far" from more of a probably not.  :)  

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by: BNCordeiro @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 14:14:23 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I never said i was dead against baker (0.00 / 0)

I said before Baker has some improvement to do and it was his race to lose. He never lost my vote. If he continues a bland campaign and panders to the left during the primary season. He'll definitely lose it. Here is my standard for your reference

If he disappoints me with a poor law and order platform. So far he hasn't. He and i will only agree on one area. Fiscal conservatism only. That's not a formula to get my vote anyway.

Tisie only has 1/3 out of my standard. That's 30% in agreement. Since I'm out on a limb with baker for now there is now no way i can support his LG pick. Its a bridge very far away from me.  

" A republic if you can keep it"- Ben Franklin 1787

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by: sjfern20 @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 15:36:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Only Minority Leader For One Cycle (0.00 / 0)

Give me a break.  Richard has been Minority Leader for one electon cycle - 2008.  No seats gained or lost in an overwhelming Democrat year.  If that is your reason so be it but it is weak, weak, weak.

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by: VertiGOP @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 16:19:15 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Since the previous Leader (0.00 / 0)

I believe Lees announced to retire before the 06 election.  Tisie has had two election cycles at the helm to effect senate races.
He the lost the open seat race seat in 06. Granted in democratic years.

I forgot to mention Assistant Minority leader since 1997. Either way in a leader ship position to influence voters, fund raising and candidate recruitment. I think we had more than five Back then. Plenty of opportunity to gain some seats or hold the ones we had at least. Bottom line he didn't. I don't fault him for the two recent cycles but the track record in leadership since 97 (Ten years).

Not a track record i would endorse. Combined with his positions on issues a very poor choice for lg.  

" A republic if you can keep it"- Ben Franklin 1787

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by: sjfern20 @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 17:44:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Once Cycle (0.00 / 0)

Brian Lees was the Senate Minority Leader through the end of 2006.  Tisei was elected Leader in January of 2007 so my point stands one cycle as leader no gains no losses in a lousy election cycle 2008 which you concede and take one step further by conceding 2006 was too, which I agree with.

Since all GOP Senators are in leadership by extension then you would not support any of them for any higher office.

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by: VertiGOP @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 19:59:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Take another look a the district. (0.00 / 0)

First... an FYI:

http://www.redmassgroup.com/di...

"arguably the bluest part of the bluest state" is not even close.  It's much better than the state average and arguably one of the most Republican districts in the state.

Take another look at the voting history here.  For example, in 2006 we use the (Healey + Mihos) vs (Patrick + Ross) comparison we in our RMG map.  Statewide the "conservative" combo lost by 26% but only lost by 4% in the district.  For a more detailed analysis follow the link I provided.

Second...

...is your first point:  We have a primary process.  If another Republican were to run in a primary that you like better than Tisei, would you back the better candidate for LG in the election?

Bob Hedlund for Minority Leader.

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by: Mike "DD4RP" Rossettie @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 12:09:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You misunderstand... (0.00 / 0)

...I was referencing my Second Bristol & Plymmouth district represented by Mark Montigny as arugably one of the bluest, not Tisei's Middlesex & Essex.  I used to joke with other State Committee members about how Cambridge or Amherst may be worse but New Bedford area isn't exactly lighting up the RedMassGroup map fire engine or cherry red!

Second, you must not have read where I support Charlie Baker & trust his judgment as to who can work best with & for him in his administration.  I'm not a flip flopper when it comes to candidate support.  If I'm behind someone, I'm with them come hell or high water until the bitter or triumphant end.  

Similarly, I did much the same with Rappaport/Healey.  I met Kerry & Jim on the same day at the same event.  Rappaport was at New Bedford's Wamsutta Club for a meeting of the Republican Club of Southeastern Mass discussing his recent entrance into the LG race for 2002.  Kerry Healey had just been elected MassGOP Chair.  I pledged my support to Jim and then later Kerry jumped into the race.  I had plenty of friends & political contacts twist my arm, tease, cajole, guilt, and otherwise press me to switch horses.  No, I refused.  Granted, in that case I was backing the arguably more conservative candidate but the point is, suddenly it became popular & en vogue to support Kerry Healey in some circles - and I refused.

If I had switched back then, well that was a sign that Jim Rappaport couldn't trust me & that Kerry Healey shouldn't.

No, I won't be switching horses here for some theoretical/hypothetical conservative LG golden candidate.  Richard Tisei personally asked me for my support and I have given it to him.  My word is my bond.  Granted, my favorite movie is The Godfather but I have a soft spot for another Al Pacino movie, Scarface, and how does that quote go? "All I have in this world is my world & my balls...and I don't break 'em for nobody!"  

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by: BNCordeiro @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 14:11:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

OK (0.00 / 0)

Yeah, I though you were discussing Tisei's district.  OK

The second part I was asking a question I didn't know the answer to and was curious.  I wasn't trying to make a point.  I appreciate the candid answer.

Bob Hedlund for Minority Leader.

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by: Mike "DD4RP" Rossettie @ Sun Dec 06, 2009 at 12:37:40 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You're Welcome (0.00 / 0)

You're welcome.  Whether one agrees or disagrees with me, I tend to be a fairly open book - for better or worse.  :)  

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by: BNCordeiro @ Sun Dec 06, 2009 at 15:16:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

[hidden comment] HAHAHAHAH (0.33 / 6)

All I hear is Whining and Crying from Baker volunteers,

"oh noooo, no one cares about social issues anymore, those are for right wing fanatics! We need to be the party of fiscal restraint and create jobs!"

and

"Don't make fun of Tisei because he used to be Barney Frank's Lover, hes married to Charlie Baker's brother. He has a proven record of being a true fiscal conservative! and oh yeah he voted NO on tuition to Illegal Aliens! That PROVES hes a Republican. So what if he hates unborn babies and wants to see them murdered at a rate that would make Lindsey Graham blush."

Charlie Baker has ALIENATED the only people who could win him the election.

The conservative voters who stopped voting because they are sick of getting 'Tisie'd in the Behind'

DUMP TISIE ALL THE WAY!!!!

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by: tonid @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 02:54:09 AM UTC

If you don't like (5.00 / 2)

Him then don't vote for him...it's that simple.  Or better yet, offer a better alternative.

As a side, note your comments regarding his personal life are really out of line in my opinion.  When they call for a vote on the floor they don't ask whether anyone was Barney's Frank's boyfriend or married to a candidate's brother.

No one was more critical of the way same sex marriage made it into MA than I, but that was because of the method (SJC) rather than the actual issue...BUT these kinds of comments only seek to give fodder to those who continue to paint the GOP as a bunch of homophobic religious nutbulls.  Maybe you don't care if you or the party are seen that way, but I do, and judging by your ratings I suspect some others do too.

Follow me on twitter @garyrlake

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by: garyrlake @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 04:28:04 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

What's wrong with being the party of fiscal restraint and creating jobs? (0.00 / 0)

As someone who's been downsized and laid off 3 times in the last 2 years and finally got a new job after 8 months of looking and having to take a 25% cut in salary to get that job I'm all in favor of a little fiscal restraint. Actually I'm in favor of a lot of fiscal restraint. Reducing the size and scope of our state government and, wait for it, creating jobs are THE most pressing issues facing the Commonwealth. People are not leaving this state in droves because it's too liberal. They're leaving because there's no work and it's too damn expensive to live here. 56% of the voters are unenrolled. You can't win without getting the majority of independents. You can't get the majority of independents in MASSACHUSETTS by making the campaign about social issues. If they think you're a hard-line, far-right conservative they will take a pass and vote for the Democrat, no matter how bad he screws up the local economy. (I'm talking state-wide here, not local districts where there may be larger concentrations of social conservatives, so please don't bring up specific legislators.) My question to those so adamantly opposed to Tisei is: Are you willing to throw away this opportunity to get our fiscal house in order over social issues? Isn't that worth some support? Because as of right now there is no one else running for Lt. Governor.

Why is President Obama's Justice Dept. running guns to Mexican drug cartels, and possibly MS-13 too?

Karl (TLC)Weld

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by: TLCWeld @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 05:05:30 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wow. Really? (0.00 / 0)

If your main concern with Richard Tisei as a candidate for lieutenant governor is his sexuality then you need your head examined.

Why do you care about Tisei and his personal life. He's gay. He likes dudes. Get over it. It's 2009.

I actually agree with him on many of his social positions, particularly gay marriage. Yea, I support gay marriage. What are you gonna do throw stones at me and shout about how I am destroying the "sanctity" of the family? Give me a fucking break. Nearly half of marriages in this country end in divorce. If the gays want to get married let them because then they can experience the joy of divorce court and fight over who owns what and who gets the kids. They can enjoy the luxury of doing taxes as a joint couple and deciding what to do with the other when they become a vegetable at the end of life.  

PS. Your gay Tisei jokes are weak.  

"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

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by: Garrett Quinn @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 05:59:06 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Are you a troll? (0.00 / 0)

Because you are not being helpful.

Bob Hedlund for Minority Leader.

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by: Mike "DD4RP" Rossettie @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 12:22:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Establishment types (0.00 / 0)

It is always interesting to see where the establishment types on this blog come down on certain issues. Where are they willing to draw the line on their principles in order to maintain their cred with the establishment? Do they go with the party favorite or stick to their principles? Perhaps, they're just being pragmatic.

The Tisei story has revealed some interesting things.  

"The prediction here is that RMG will peter out in a couple of months." - Adam Reilly, 2/28/2007

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by: Garrett Quinn @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 06:04:36 AM UTC

Lets take a look at some other comments...... (0.00 / 0)

 I love how so many of you continue to use Senator Tisei's comments about Ted Kennedy against him.... The man passed away it is normal for people to say good things about him... do you really think it would help the Republican party if they trashed Ted Kennedy when asked for a comment about his passing. And as far as Tisei's Romney comment goes... I supported Romney when he ran for Governor but felt he abandoned us... and left Kerry Healey out to hang... So I agree with what Tisei said.

So why don't we talk about someone else comments.... Hmmmm maybe Polito's comments about Obama from a Globe article on January 18 2009. Tisei was talking about a man that had just died... Polito is talking about a man who is going to kill our way of life

Karyn Polito:Personally I was moved by Barack Obama's campaign. He's a very inspirational individual who introduced himself in a short period of time, and captured the heart and soul of the country.

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by: Myrights1 @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 14:02:01 PM UTC

What is your deal... (0.00 / 0)

...with Karen Polito? You keep bringing her up. Is she running for LG now? If your logic is that she was on a list of possible people Charlie Baker was considering, then why aren't you blaming the anti-Richard Tisei movement on Brad Jones or Tim Cruz? Weren't they on the list? Or how about Paul Loscocco? Wasn't he mentioned as a possible? I happen to think the Dump Tisei movement is none of the above. I think it's made up of some people in the party who are not happy with Baker's choice and who are looking for someone else to run against Tisei. Someone commented here yesterday that it is a cause without a leader and I think they are spot on with that.

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by: wendywalter @ Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 15:57:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

This DumpTisei post is boring............ (0.00 / 0)

If you disagree with me you are a racist homophobe.

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by: Vote3rdpartynow @ Sun Dec 06, 2009 at 04:27:37 AM UTC

HYE! No horning in on Garretts Gig, man! Not Cool! (0.00 / 0)

Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro

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by: Paul R. Ferro @ Sun Dec 06, 2009 at 06:22:23 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Math formulas to consider when posting in this thread. (5.00 / 1)

So, I figured, for clarification purposes for everyone within the post, I wanted to list some formulas I came up with.

I am not suggesting anyone's opinions are not valid. But I hope we can come to agreement on the below math so we can have more productive discussions going forward.

----Math Begins----

Winning percentage / 3 way general election = 34% at least

(Base of the Party Absolute value * 3 way general election) = (Base of the Party value * 1.5)

Republican Nominee for Any Office = Republican who wins the Primary

(Convention Vote > or = 15%) = Able to run statewide in the Party Primary

Convention Victory = No quantifiable electoral value
based on history

Worst Governor Ever = Governor Deval Patrick

Citizen Deval Patrick > Governor Deval Patrick

Governor Any Republican > Governor Deval Patrick

Lt. Governor Any Republican > Governor Deval Patrick

Any Lt Governor Absolute Value = Only real job besides pecking order is to run the Governor's Councilor Meetings Wednesdays at Noon.

Strong Republican Primary = More free media for Republican Candidates

Average Time As Governor < Average time as State Legislator

Future of the Party = Current and Future State Legislators

And the one I hope everyone reads.

(Total Activist Time Spent Campaigning for Lower Office Candidates / Total Activist Time Spent Campaigning on Higher Offices) = likelyhood that the Party will survive.

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by: VESuggestions @ Sun Dec 06, 2009 at 05:45:50 AM UTC

Your conclusion is that activists should take a pass on the gubernatorial race? (5.00 / 1)

If it is, I like the way you think.

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"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)

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by: Patrick @ Sun Dec 06, 2009 at 16:57:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Republicrat (0.00 / 0)

Tisei supports policies contrary to the core principals of conservatives.  I am a conservative first, a Republican second - I will work hard to elect conservatives and pass on electing RINOs like Tisei.

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by: Tom Paine @ Sun Dec 06, 2009 at 19:54:17 PM UTC

Well said Tom. (0.00 / 0)

I like it this way:

1st- I am an American because that is where I live and was born.

2nd- Wife/Husband/father/Mother,ect.

3rd - Conservative as in my core values/Ideology

4th - Registered Republican

I use this when I encounter those Liberals who say " you are a Republican,you are so nice though " ?

The problem with Liberals is that they have is assbackwards. They are Democrats 1st !  

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by: politicalmadman @ Sun Dec 06, 2009 at 22:44:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Can't argue much there... (0.00 / 0)

...except I would've inserted God alongside country :)  

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by: BNCordeiro @ Mon Dec 07, 2009 at 00:03:32 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You know, for a "dead thread" (0.00 / 0)

you sure are posting a lot here!

:-)


Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro

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by: Paul R. Ferro @ Mon Dec 07, 2009 at 01:22:41 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Inflating a busted tire (0.00 / 0)

Cal, you know that I have a near Pavlovian urge to respond to blog threads!  :)  

Actually, considering the thread drift... much of this conversation could be taken elsewhere and it still would be valid - just not necessarily entirely for the subject at hand.  

What can I say, I'm pumping air into a busted tire... sure, it's got a hole in it & sure, it'll collapse again soon... but for now, it's full of hot air.  

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by: BNCordeiro @ Mon Dec 07, 2009 at 15:17:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Politicalmadman, you just made a really powerful point..... (0.00 / 0)

The problem with Liberals is that they have is assbackwards. They are Democrats 1st !

Democrats have eliminated/destroyed all of the high ranking traditional associations that tie Americans together.  For instance, you say you are American first, family member second, conservative third, Republican fourth.  Democrats are ashamed of America, have worked to destroy the traditional family structure, and obviously have no place for conservative or Republican philosophies.

To BnCordiero's point about God - The Democrats have no place for God in the public arena as well.  

My ranking would be:

1. God
2. Family
3. Country
4. Conservative
5. Political Party

If you disagree with me you are a racist homophobe.

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by: Vote3rdpartynow @ Tue Dec 08, 2009 at 12:43:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Sorry, just saw this-Thank you both. (0.00 / 0)

Question: How do I know when these older posts are responded too ?  

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by: politicalmadman @ Thu Dec 10, 2009 at 05:41:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

ukraine pantyhose (0.00 / 0)

ukraine pantyhose

ukraine pantyhose

ukraine pantyhose  

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by: pandawill @ Wed Oct 19, 2011 at 01:54:33 AM UTC