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Advertisement


Baker internal poll shows him down by 7 points

by: Rob "EaBo Clipper" Eno

Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 12:12:52 PM EDT


Red Mass Group has obtained an internal memo from Public Opinion Strategies to the Baker Campaign.  They recently conducted a poll at the end of July for the campaign showing Charlie Baker within striking distance of Deval Patrick. Here is the memo with the findings of that poll.

pos

MEMORANDUM

TO:                  TIM O'BRIEN - BAKER FOR GOVERNOR CAMPAIGN

FROM:            NEIL NEWHOUSE - PUBLIC OPINION STRATEGIES

SUBJECT:      RECENT BAKER POLL DATA

DATE:            AUGUST 9, 2010

As you know, our firm recently completed a statewide survey in Massachusetts of 500 likely general election voters.  The poll was conducted July 25-27 and has a margin of error of +/- 4.38% in 95 out of 100 cases.

           Key Findings

1.      Just over one-third of voters believe that Deval Patrick deserves re-election.

Just 36% of voters believe that Patrick deserves re-election, while 59% believe it's time for a change and a new person to be elected Governor.  These figures parallel the sentiment that the state is off on the wrong track (57%), and the clear sense that the state's economy is NOT getting better (80%).  Massachusetts voters are clearly not enamored with the political status quo in the state.

2.      Baker trails Patrick by just seven points.

While our previous poll in April showed Patrick with an eleven-point lead over Charlie, the current poll shows that has been whittled down to just seven (39% Patrick / 32% Charlie, with Cahill at 17%).

Rob "EaBo Clipper" Eno :: Baker internal poll shows him down by 7 points
Baker's gain since our last poll is eight points, compared to just four points for Patrick.

3.      Baker's name ID is tracking Patrick's 2006 numbers.

While Charlie is just seven points back, he is still not all that well-known in the state, as his image is 32% favorable/15% unfavorable, with 53% of voters either having no impression or having never heard of him.  Those who think these might be low should understand that Charlie's current image score is almost IDENTICAL to both POS and Suffolk University August 2006 polling regarding Deval Patrick (POS - 34%-14%/52%, Suffolk - 36%-14%/51%).

Charlie's potential for picking up support is pretty clear - among those voters in the state who have heard of Charlie Baker, he leads Patrick by 39%-37% on the trial heat.  He's leading by 12 points among voters who rank their election interest as a "9 or a 10" (44% Baker, 32% Patrick, 16% Cahill).

Bottom Line

Despite being a first time candidate who was not that well-known coming into the race, Charlie Baker is clearly closing the gap in this race as Massachusetts voters continue to have doubts about Deval Patrick.  Baker is picking up support not only among Independents, but among those voters who say the state is on the wrong track.  He is gradually becoming the "go-to" candidate for "change" in the state.

It's helpful to put this race in perspective.  Charlie Baker's current image among Massachusetts voters is identical to where Deval Patrick was four years ago.

With a little more than 80 days left in this race, Charlie Baker is right where he wants to be - single digits back in a political environment favoring the outsider/challenger candidate against two incumbents, with a very positive image and room to grow on the ballot.

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Time to start packing your bags, Deval & Co! (0.00 / 0)


Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. - H. L. Mencken

32% - in his own poll - is reason to celebrate?? n/t (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
well (0.00 / 0)
It does make this memo seem legit though

[ Parent ]
True (5.00 / 2)
In fact, the numbers are very, very similar to the latest Rasmussen poll.

Actually, it is 1% worse for Baker than the Rasmussen poll.

So I'm not sure why the Baker camp is touting the poll and leaking it.

It doesn't really tell us anything we didn't know two weeks ago, does it?


[ Parent ]
Few reasons.... (0.00 / 0)
First, it shows Baker is still the only guy who will be elected Governor other than Deval.  Cahill is stalled at 15-18%, and he hasn't budged.

Second, it gives perspective on Charlie's Fav/Unfav vis a vie Deval in 2006.  i.e. they're very similar.

Finally, it highlights that while Charlie is still down, he's within easy striking distance, and more importantly, with his high unknown numbers, has a lot of room to grow.

Deval and Tim are where they are.  People have made decisions on them one way or the other.  The only thing left is whether Charlie can convince the vast majority of Not Deval electorate that he's the Not Deval who can win.

This poll, at the very least, shows Baker has that potential.


Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro


[ Parent ]
Retort (0.00 / 0)
While Cahill is "stalled" Baker's support has actually decreased, up to and including his own poll released today.

Cahill's numbers are post-negative ads.  Baker has yet to face any negative ads.  And he will, from Deval and the unions and the DGA and others.  So, while he has room to grow, he also has room to fall, no?

Cahill has been attacked by the Globe, the Herald, Howie Carr, the RGA and others and still is polling close to 20%.  I think this is his floor, not his ceiling.  And he has been improving lately, albeit in small increments.

Your assumption is that once people get to know Baker, they will like him.  But once they hear his named mentioned in conjunction with the Big Dig (which he can't escape), and health care (a fat cat executive of an insurance provider!), they may not like what they see.


[ Parent ]
Cahill hasn't dropped? (5.00 / 1)
Cahill was polling in the high 20's to as much as 30 before the truth based advertising campaign by the RGA.  To say his support hasn't dropped is disingenuous.

Cahill pre RGA Ads average = 24.5% | Cahill post RGA ads average 14%.

Facts are always helpful.

Full Disclosure


http://www.redmassgroup.com/pr...


[ Parent ]
I meant recent polls (0.00 / 0)
He was the only candidate who gained in the last Rasmussen poll.

[ Parent ]
And he's certainly gained (0.00 / 0)
from the Boston Globe poll, which had him at 9% recently.

Many of you here were celebrating that one.


[ Parent ]
I wasn't.... (5.00 / 1)
I thought that was a junk poll.  I've never been a fan of Suffolk polls.

The issue you're not seeing, Brent, is that it's too late for Cahill.  He was 'taken out" back in May.

The Electorate is still 60% Not Deval, 40% Deval.  Deval is going to get 40% regardless of what happens.  That's the Democratic Base plus a few points in this state.

But Cahill has no path to victory.  The entire point of the RGA ads early was to drive up Cahill's negatives early, to the point that he wasn't a serious candidate.

As we hit November, Cahill voters are going to realize, that like all third-party candidates down by 20 points vs. an unpopular incumbent, a vote for Cahill is a vote for Deval.    They'll make a rational choice to vote for the guy who can "beat Deval" and that's not Cahill.  It's Baker.

There will be some die-hard, dead enders, like, apparently, yourself, but let's not delude ourselves.

Cahill is last in the polls, last in money, and has no momentum.  He's done.  It's just a spite campaign now.  His own people know this.  He knows this.

In the end, he'll get maybe 14%, Deval will get 40%, and Charlie will win a plurality victory.  The only X factor is how much Stein pulls from Deval's left flank.


Follow me on Twitter?  Sure, why not.  www.twitter.com/paulferro


[ Parent ]
Here's more analysis (5.00 / 2)
Apples to apples

Rasmussen pre RGA ads - 22.75%
Rasmussen post RGA ads - 15.67%

Suffolk pre RGA Ads - 24%
Suffolk Post RGA Ads - 14%

Boston Globe pre RGA Ads - 26.5%
Boston Globe post RGA Ads - 9%

Tell me again Brent, how has Cahill not lost tremendous support.


Full Disclosure


http://www.redmassgroup.com/pr...


[ Parent ]
Post negative ads, Cahill's numbers have been (slowly) creeping up (0.00 / 0)
Even your data supports this.

The averages listed for his post RGA ads - 15.5%, 14% and 9%, are all below where Cahill is actually polling now - 17%.

After the RGA barrage, he is slowly recovering.


[ Parent ]
In the sample sizes we are talking about (0.00 / 0)
there is minimal statistical difference between 14% and 17%

Full Disclosure


http://www.redmassgroup.com/pr...


[ Parent ]
Rasmussen has (5.00 / 3)
margin of errors of 4.5%

Technically, the improvement from 14% to 16% to 17% in the three previous Rasmussen polls is statistically insignificant.

Just as Baker's change from 31% to 34% to 32% is insignificant.

Deval going from 45% to 41% to 38% is SIGNIFICANT.

(R)- Outside 495


[ Parent ]
Wake Up (0.00 / 0)
The general numbers...big picture, dummmy.  

Based on the way recent polls are trending (be it inside polling, Suffolk or Rasmussen), it looks more and more like the Treasurer could re-invent the wheel during this election and still languish at 17%.

Then again, he wouldn't be in this race if he didn't think he could win, right?

The Cahill homers need to abandon the whole "we've hit the bottom of the barrel, and now we can only do better" mantra. This hallucination been beaten to death for months.  

He's hit the goddamn ceiling.

Managed.  Expectations.  

"But there is no real me: only an entity, something illusory." - Bret Easton Ellis


[ Parent ]
with his high unknown numbers, has a lot of room to grow. (0.00 / 0)
Is Baker using the same tactic as Martha Coakley?  I say that because we are well under 100 days until the election and Baker still has no name recognision.  

Combine that with Baker pulling a no-show at one debate, and sending Brad Jones to another.....


"Paula Jones was and is trailer-trash" -SomervilleTom

http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/...


[ Parent ]
Who was it that was hosting (0.00 / 0)
these "debates"?

(R)- Outside 495

[ Parent ]
one debate was (0.00 / 0)
hosted by Environmental League of Massachusetts.
http://www.wbur.org/2010/06/30...
This is the one that Baker sent Brad Jones to.

the other debate I was talking about was AFL-CIO Massachusetts Workers Union ..... and Cahill was there.
http://www.capecodonline.com/a...
 

"Paula Jones was and is trailer-trash" -SomervilleTom

http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/...


[ Parent ]
you guys catch that little Cahill dig I snuck in there ?? hmmmm ? (5.00 / 1)


"Paula Jones was and is trailer-trash" -SomervilleTom

http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/...


[ Parent ]
Hmmmm (5.00 / 1)
So Baker wouldn't appear for untelevised "Debates" hosted by Special Interest Groups that would never endorse him....

Tell me where Baker went wrong on this one.

(R)- Outside 495


[ Parent ]
Tell me where Baker went wrong on this one. (0.00 / 0)
Baker looks like a tool.

Charlie Baker, do you want to respond? Haynes, the moderator, asked to a chorus of laughter. Oh wait. He s not here.

http://www.capecodonline.com/a...

It also makes Baker look scared, like he can't handle a hostile crowd (See MA Lege).  He wants to be gov, he wants us to believe that he's the kind of guy that will roll up his sleeves and fix Gov.  But ask the guy to go into a hostile environment and state his positions and back them up in a debate ...... and the guy's a no show.  

The other debate - The Environmental League of Massachusetts Debate - Baker sent Brad Jones to debate Gov Patrick, Tim Cahill and Jill Stein.  That move was pathetic!  Like it or not the enviornment is an important issue to voters.  Obviously a Republican had to be there, so what does Baker do???? he sends his big brother ......

So yeah - I think Baker is hiding.  He's hiding from tough questions and he's hiding from tough venues.  

"Paula Jones was and is trailer-trash" -SomervilleTom

http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/...


[ Parent ]
"Likely Voters" (4.00 / 1)
They are both "Likely Voter" polls - which measures the people who say they are going to vote in November.  Polss like the UNH/Boston Globe released numbers for "adults" which includes those who said they will not vote or are not even registered.

What does this tell us?  Well, this internal poll confirms Rasmussen.  if you have multiple data points showing the same information that increases the accuracy.  One poll can be wrong.  If many polls (or other data sets for that matter) all show the same thing, it's probably right.

Bob Hedlund for Minority Leader.


[ Parent ]
Baker keeps closing the gap... (0.00 / 0)
and the more people get to know Charlie, the more they like him-- and Deval cannot seem to get to 40% -- ALL reasons to celebrate!

Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. - H. L. Mencken

[ Parent ]
Brent (0.00 / 0)
Whether or not Deval Patrick wins reelection, Not Deval is going to have the majority.  When this far out from the election you are the Not Deval candidate with the highest percentage and the lowest downside, i.e. Charlie given Tim's 17% and high negatives, yes it is a reason to be cautiously optimistic.


Full Disclosure


http://www.redmassgroup.com/pr...


[ Parent ]
So I'll ask the question (5.00 / 2)
If on October 25, 2010 the numbers look like this

Deval Patrick 40, Charlie Baker 38, Tim Cahill 17, Jill stein 5, will you support Baker with your vote.  Or will you allow Deval Patrick to be re-elected and get another 4 years to further destroy Massachusetts.  The choice is yours.

Full Disclosure


http://www.redmassgroup.com/pr...


[ Parent ]
In your example... (0.00 / 0)
The Stein voters should also abandon their candidate then, right?

That would give Deval 45%.

And it's safe to assume that Deval will get at least 5% of the Cahill support. Thus conservatives Cahill backers like me almost wouldn't matter.

But I understand your larger point.  However, I think most of us will continue to support our chosen candidates.  Recent history (see: Brown-Coakley) tells us that a lot can happen in a week's time.

If Cahill (and his supporters) didn't think he can and will win, then he wouldn't be running (and we wouldn't be wasting our time).  

If the situation were reversed, would you vote for Cahill?


[ Parent ]
Social issues not to be off the table. (1.00 / 1)
 The fact that Charlie indicated he is left of Obama on social issues does not bode well with the electorate. He certainly is the right candidate on the issues. The people are outraged with a gay judge over ruling prop 8 in Calif that negated 7 million voters rights. That judge should be impeached for not recusing himself

Ed Shallow


[ Parent ]
Stein Votes (5.00 / 1)
Candidate Stein will do what she did last time she ran and ask her voters to vote DEMOCRAT

[ Parent ]
Nice dodge, Brent (0.00 / 0)
Now why don't you answer the question that was asked? If the numbers are as Rob hypothesizes above, would you vote for Baker or Cahill?  

Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. - H. L. Mencken

[ Parent ]
Then Hats Off to Ram Rod -- (0.00 / 0)
at least he's upfront about the fact that he hopes to hand the election to Patrick. A vote for Cahill amounts to the same thing.  

Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. - H. L. Mencken

[ Parent ]
thanks MiracleGirl ! : ) (0.00 / 0)
at least he's upfront about the fact that he hopes to hand the election to . . . .

I think that was a complement ??

"Paula Jones was and is trailer-trash" -SomervilleTom

http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/...


[ Parent ]
I'd vote for Patrick (0.00 / 1)
Then I'd run back here and post it for all to see.  

"Paula Jones was and is trailer-trash" -SomervilleTom

http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/...


[ Parent ]
Great numbers for Charlie Baker (5.00 / 1)
The numbers are getting better and better for Charlie Baker as time goes on, and I suspect they are higher than the July 25-27 figures since the Governor threw away all the potential jobs coming to Mass when he shot down the Casino bill.  

I can't imagine too many unemployed people are happy with the Governor turning down such a gift of jobs to the Commonwealth.

Charlie Baker was instrumental in bringing Harvard Pilgrim out of the gutter, turning the company around.  I'm sure he can and will do the same for Massachusetts.  

It is time for fiscal responsibility in the Governor's office and Charlie Baker has it.


Casino Bill (0.00 / 0)
Charlie Baker is on record stating that he would have vetoed the bill.  Just like Deval.

[ Parent ]
He turned HPHC around by raising rates. (0.00 / 0)
What's he going to raise to turn MA around?

---
"That it ceased to exist, I'll grant you, but whether or not it failed cannot be definitively said." - Metropolitan (1990)


[ Parent ]
Dear Paul Ferro (0.00 / 0)
Just say'in.  

Biggest observation from this poll (0.00 / 0)
Baker leads by 12 points amongst those most likely to vote.

Charlie's potential for picking up support is pretty clear - among those voters in the state who have heard of Charlie Baker, he leads Patrick by 39%-37% on the trial heat.  He's leading by 12 points among voters who rank their election interest as a "9 or a 10" (44% Baker, 32% Patrick, 16% Cahill).


Full Disclosure


http://www.redmassgroup.com/pr...


Tim O'Brien has always been enchanted by polls. Problem is, polls don't vote. (5.00 / 1)


Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

[ Parent ]
12% Undecided/Other (0.00 / 0)
Everyone knows who Deval Patrick is. He's been the incumbent for 3+ years, he gets all the press, and yet he can't get himself over the 40% mark without a crisis like the Boston Water Shortage from this spring. In my opinion, I think its pretty safe to say that the undecideds will probably not vote for Deval. But lets say he makes it to 40%, with a couple of disgruntled Democrats deciding that the only way to back up Obama is to vote for Patrick.

That leaves 11% of the electorate up for grabs.

Therefore, Baker will need 41% to win the election. That will require getting another 9% of the voters to back him. This doesn't seem that impossible considering that 53% of voters have no impression of him, or have never heard of him. I'm going to assume that the 11% of undecideds are all from this group. They know and dislike Deval, they are just waiting for the alternative.

Then, there's Cahill. Cahill is pretty much out of contention for winning the race. Even if he picks up the 11% of undecideds, he is still at 28%, and solidly in 3rd place. Baker and Patrick support seems to be pretty solid. I think with their favorability ratings and associated party apparati they are simply not going to slip support to an Indepdendent after Labor Day (which is right around the corner I might add). Therefore, Cahill has no way to win. Realistically, he can't get to 33%. (Yes Cahill could find Osama Bin Laden and become a State Hero and win, but thats not going to happen)

The key at this point is for Baker to put those undecideds behind him, and keep Cahill from 20%. Cahill can take 2% of the undecideds, but he gets 3%, and gets over 20%, Baker can't win and Deval gets re-elected. Baker will need to articulate his alternative vision for Massachusetts and contrast against Patrick. Yet, at the same time, these undecideds are probably Patrick voters from 2006. He will need to win them over the same way that Weld and Cellucci won liberal-leaning voters over in the 1990's. He needs to be the candidate of pragmatic reform. Luckily, Cahill doesn't care about meaningful reform and won't be competing for these voters. Then again however, if Baker runs too far from the right, he risks losing much needed votes to Cahill, whose support as far as Red Mass Group indicates, comes from confused Social Conservatives and Hibernian-philes. So Baker really needs to walk a fine line here. He can't go negative on Patrick the way that Healey attempted, and yet he still needs to present a contrasting view of reforming Massachusetts to steer the undecideds away from the high-minded, and empty rhetoric of Deval Patrick.

Luckily for us, Baker is a pragmatic reformer and a cool customer who will refrain from throwing bombs. He's definetly got a shot at sending MiniObama back to Richmond.

(R)- Outside 495


Baker "support seems to be pretty solid" (0.00 / 0)
So, negative ads from the Democratic machine will have no effect on a virtually unknown candidate?  Really?

[ Parent ]
His support is pretty solid (0.00 / 0)
He has a net favorability rating of 20%, with half of the population still out to lunch. Most politicians don't even have 20% net favorability ratings with 90% of the population tuned in.

Baker needs to get his favorability rating to about 45% to win this election. The ads could trash him, and he could lose favorability with 80% of the folks that have never heard of him, and still get into the low 40% range of favorability.

That's a good place to be. It would be another thing if he had even net favorability right now, and half of the people with no opinion of him.  

(R)- Outside 495


[ Parent ]
Cahill Supporters - you are being duped by Deval to help him get re-elected... (5.00 / 2)
At this point, it is crystal clear that Cahill has absolutely no chance of winning the election. Zero. You can talk all you want on this site about your conservative credentials, about not wanting Charlie as your candidate - even how you are voting on principle when voting for Cahill. But please, end the ridiculous notion that Cahill can win. He simply cannot. Period.

And Cahill knows this as well. He also knows very well that all he is doing is helping his party out by running. It is a great scam being perpetrated on (conservative) Cahill supporters. It is a vote against Patrick that isn't really going to Patrick's opponent. Shear genius.

It had been clear for some time that Patrick could not win a head to head against a palatable Republican. Enter Cahill.

Chew on that one while you espouse your conservative credentials.

I had people telling me in '08 that Obama was a moderate because he said so on the campaign trail.

Again, that doesn't really matter. The bottom line is Cahill has zero (not small, but zero) chance of winning. Voting for him is simply helping Patrick get re-elected.  

Perhaps the fact that we have seen millions voting themselves into complete dependence on a tyrant has made our generation understand that to choose one's government is not necessarily to secure freedom.  


Wow - that was a major eye opener!! OMG I can't believe it. (0.00 / 0)
really, how these guys can go on supporting Baker ...... well, I've made my thoughts on this board clear, no need to pile on.



"Paula Jones was and is trailer-trash" -SomervilleTom

http://bluemassgroup.com/2012/...


[ Parent ]

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