Sal Lamattina: "Governor Patrick, Tear Down These Tolls!"

Gee Eabo, that is "surprising" it was an anti-Deval crowd... (0.00 / 0)

I mean, you only had one of Deval's opponents from 2006, three Republican State Senators, a Republican appointed TurnPike Authority member and your token right-wing radio talker...ya, I am surprised it was an anti-Deval crowd.

And 200 people!!!  After WTTK hyped it all week.  Go ahead and make excuses that it was on the wrong day.  I bet its the same 200 people you see at these events.

Lastly, what do you advocate after we tear down the tolls?  Do we raise the gas tax or default on the bonds?

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by: Festus Garvey @ Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 19:40:48 PM CST

No it was mostly East Boston Residents (0.00 / 0)

That I see at Ecco, or Cafe 303.  A diverse crowd.  4pm on a Wednesday is not really the time for people who work.  You have this on a saturday there will be more people coming.  

This is the beginning.

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by: Rob "EaBo Clipper" Eno @ Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 19:51:12 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Seeing as >70% of toll revenue goes to pay for the collection (0.00 / 0)

of the tolls.  I think we'll be fine with removing them.  I would raise the gas tax, with the caveat that all of the toll booths get bulldozed.  

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by: Rob "EaBo Clipper" Eno @ Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 19:52:17 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Get real (0.00 / 0)

Where did you get that bogus number?  Me thinks you are way off the mark.  Guess again.

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by: Wirklichkeit @ Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 13:29:56 PM CST

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EaBo was using a more realistic calculation....... (0.00 / 0)

based on the fact that a huge percentage of the revenues end up in the pockets of the toll takers before they leave the booth.

"One for the Turnpike Authority, and one for me, one for the Turnpike Authority, and one for me".

I know many of you won't believe that happens, but after seeing a state legislator stuff cash in her bra I would ask you to think again.

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by: Vote3rdpartynow @ Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 14:30:09 PM CST

[ Parent ]

DOES (0.00 / 0)

happen....bunch of them got buster a year or so ago.  Was in the papers for a few days.  I bet they cracked down for a month or so and then got right back to it.

27th Infantry Regiment, cut in half during the Clinton years.

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 07:06:39 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Opposite (0.00 / 0)

It's not 70% goes to collection, it's 70% is derived after collection costs.  

Manual collection is about 30%, still are higher than the 5% or so that's associated with other revenue sources: gas tax, income tax....

Other than specific locations like the airport tunnels, there's no argument, even at 30% collection costs, that toll taking is efficient, particularly considering that transponders are not widely used.

Nonetheless, there's still IMHO, a place for tolls as there's a place for any user fee.  Who better to pay for a road than the person that uses it.  Same's to be said of recording fees, marriage license, hunting licenses, permits, etc.  i.e. I don't use the Pike much, why should I pay for it. Much.

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by: gary @ Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 14:03:37 PM CST

[ Parent ]

But do you come to Boston via 93? (0.00 / 0)

If so why do the western suburbs and East Boston have to subsidize the commutes on 93?  A raised gas tax is a user fee if it goes directly to the roads.  I would propose:

1.) Elimination of the tolls
2.) A modest gas tax increase
3.) The creation of a "trust" in which to put those gas tax receipts. they should NEVER go into the general fund.

Thanks Gary, I knew I heard the 70% number when Christy Mihos was talking last night.

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by: Rob "EaBo Clipper" Eno @ Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 16:25:52 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Kind of like the social security trust... (0.00 / 0)

...oh wait.

I genuinely would like to not be so cynical but are there any examples of the state or federal government abiding by the rule of any such trust or revenue agreement?

MA: Lottery Revenue Agreement, Toll Revenue, etc, etc, etc
US: Social Security Trust Fund

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators." -PJ O'Rourke

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by: South Shore Republican @ Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 17:01:18 PM CST

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B.S. (0.00 / 0)

I don't drive in Boston I don't use those 1,000 $ a foot tunnels why the hell should I be forced to pay for them. They should be paid for by those people who use them. Just because I have a few extra pennies in my pocket after gas prices fell doesn't mean politicians should come up with new ways to spend them. Does anyone think that the price of a barrel of oil is going to remain as low as it is? Where will we be when Gas prices go back up? Do you think that after raising the Gas Tax this states legislature would repeal it to compensate for the increase in price? NOT BLOODY LIKELY.  You People In Boston Pay For Your Own Fu@%1N Tunnel And Leave The Rest Of Us Alone Dammit!

"I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others" Anthem by Ayn Rand  

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by: kyllacon @ Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 21:23:02 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Kylla (0.00 / 0)

do you ever use Logan Airport?

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by: Rob "EaBo Clipper" Eno @ Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 06:14:19 AM CST

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NO, I Hate that freakin' place. (0.00 / 0)

Every time I've ever taken a plane it was out of T.F. Green but I have dropped and picked up people from Logan. I make them pay for tolls and gas and parking.

"I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others" Anthem by Ayn Rand  

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by: kyllacon @ Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 08:49:33 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Almost Always Use It (0.00 / 0)

I almost always use Logan.  I like that it's T accesssible.  However, I'm a bit based as Logan has better flights to Orlando (my usual destination, although I also used it a couple years back for Los Angeles & San Juan) and at a cheaper price than TF Green.

Green is, admittedly, an easier drive... if I were driving myself... but I generally rent a town car or limo to take me to the airport (especially since what friend or family member wants to drive me at 3:00 am?!).  

"Tomorrow will be better for as long as America keeps alive the ideals of freedom and a better life." - Walt Disney

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by: BNCordeiro @ Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 20:56:38 PM CST

[ Parent ]

VERY bad argument (0.00 / 0)

....I don't use and have no kids in ANY public schools in Massachusetts.....yet I am forced to pay for 'em.

You People With Kids In Public Schools Pay For Your Own Fu@%1N Schools And Leave The Rest Of Us Alone Dammit!

It's called being a taxpayer.  You don't get to or have to use everything you pay for in the infrastructure.

Hundreds of State roads I don't use.....but I pay for 'em.

27th Infantry Regiment, cut in half during the Clinton years.

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 07:13:13 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Good Then (0.00 / 0)

You wouldn't be opposed to paying for a rail connection to Boston for the people of the southeastern part of the state. We look forward to your support.  

"I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others" Anthem by Ayn Rand  

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by: kyllacon @ Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 08:41:11 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Sure..... (0.00 / 0)

but it won't make your "I don't use it soI shouldn't pay for it" argument any better.

I currently pay for the MBTA commuter rail that I don't use too.......and the whole bus system.  I do take the T a few times a year.

27th Infantry Regiment, cut in half during the Clinton years.

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 12:58:57 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Also (0.00 / 0)

Did you ever attend a public school? Maybe you could look at it like you are paying for services rendered.

"I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others" Anthem by Ayn Rand  

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by: kyllacon @ Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 08:43:19 AM CST

[ Parent ]

My father (0.00 / 0)

already paid for my public schooling.

How long am I supposed to pay for my own pre-college education?  My whole life?  I should be paying California too?  Spent 5 years there...maybe MA can forward that portion of my taxes to them.

You will be paying for infrastructure you don't use for your whole life...get used to it...I see you as one of them 80+ y.o. obstructionists at my home town meetings that doesn't want to spend ANY money on the kids' schools because they don't have kids in school.....but want a brand new senior citizen center every 5 years.

27th Infantry Regiment, cut in half during the Clinton years.

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 13:02:59 PM CST

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Pike numbers. I give up (0.00 / 0)

You say it's 70% to keep 30%.  I replied (based on an '06 Romney administration study) that it really 30% to keep 70%.  

Then, today, the Worcester Telegram says it's 79% to keep 21%.

When it comes to numbers, financial results, debt, people hired, pension owed does the State produce any current usable data available easily to the public?!

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by: gary @ Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 09:05:17 AM CST

[ Parent ]

How about (0.00 / 0)

physically removing the toll booths FIRST.....cutting ALL of the waste in the budget SECOND......and then.....only if it's needed.....a realistic gas tax to pay for the roads and ONLY the roads?

You find it remarkable that working people didn't show up in Eastie DURING WORK HOURS?

This wasn't a Democrat rally filled with students, union workers not working and layabouts that don't work.

I would have gone......but I was at WORK.

Hey...they got more to show up than Saturday's anti-war rally.....which had all of 4 constant people and 3 come and goers.  7 people in Boston were anti-war enough to come out and speak.

27th Infantry Regiment, cut in half during the Clinton years.

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by: ElectricStrawberry @ Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 07:52:52 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I have an idea....... (0.00 / 0)

Lastly, what do you advocate after we tear down the tolls?  Do we raise the gas tax or default on the bonds?

 

I suggest we go straight over to Senator John Kerry's Beacon Hill manse and ask him what the f*ck he was thinking when he said the tunnel was going to be a bargain.

Then we tip over his garbage cans and toilet paper his house............

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by: Vote3rdpartynow @ Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 08:15:30 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I love the sign..................... n/t (0.00 / 0)

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by: Vote3rdpartynow @ Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 07:48:21 AM CST

Tolls (0.00 / 0)

I've serious mixed feelings on the Tolls.  

On one hand, who better to pay for the road, than the people who use that particular road.  And there's the problem.  The Central Artery, Pike and Urban I-93, all should be tolled, but the politics of Boston don't want I-93 tolls.

On the other hand, the toll taking is inefficient, and the cost structure of the Pike makes it the most expensive road, mile for mile in the US.  UK's channel tunnel may be more expensive mile for mile, but not by much and it's under an ocean for God's sake.

The problem with Governor Patrick's plan is three-fold: (1) it doesn't recognize the borked cost structure of the PIKE and attempts to raise the short-fall revenues by simply raising its flawed revenue source; and

(2) his plan is silent on how the debt will be funded.  The implication is that taxpayers assume liability, but Patrick's plan doesn't address it; and

(3) the plan is totally opaque--no pro-forma projections of revenues, expenses and no current financial results indicated, when or if a default is in the near or distant future.

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by: gary @ Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 08:35:10 AM CST

This is a matter of marketing............ (0.00 / 0)

Clearly the state can not charge $7 or $7.50 to drive thru what looks like the world's longest bathroom.  Instead they need to market the drive thru the tunnel as some kind of carnival ride.

Yelling thru a megaphone -
"STEP RIGHT UP and take your chances on the wild tunnel ride from East Boston to downtown Boston.  Pay a little $7 fee and take your chances that the roof won't cave in on you while you drive.  This ride is scarier than the Superman ride at 6 Flags themepark.  STEP RIGHT UP - don't be last in line now folks".  

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by: Vote3rdpartynow @ Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 08:53:59 AM CST

That's a Great Idea (0.00 / 0)

At least it's better than Taxing some Old guy Living on the N.Y. border. ( and everyone else who will never drive through the Teddy Baseball Tunnel ) You could show Footage of old Sox games on the walls while people are stuck in traffic. OR, Maybe it could be billed as " The World's Largest Drive Thru Car Wash". I hear there's plenty of water just add soap.

"I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others" Anthem by Ayn Rand  

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by: kyllacon @ Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 21:38:52 PM CST

[ Parent ]